Same Sex Relationship Spread

Nah, homosexual relationships are different. A relationship is not "A" relationship. I think interracial and interreligious relationships are different. They pose certain problems that other relationships do not.

I am sure his reasons for putting down the family questions is important, since many families who are uncomfortable with homosexual relationships may have certain views on the relationship in general or the person that gay or lesbian person is dating. I think gays and lesbians are more concerned about what their family thinks about their partner than heterosexuals have to care.


As for the hiding and being faithful questions, I don't see anything wrong with that. First of all, there are plenty of heterosexual spreads in the index of women asking the question if their man is faithful to them. Or there are spreads asking what their lover is hiding from them. People want to know that in general regardless of sexual preference.

And maybe for his age group, or gender preference maybe promoscuity is an issue. I am a bi female. Sorry, must admit I hear from gay mean complain about issues of cheating far more than you hear lesbians discuss it. But hell, many sex studies show that men cheat on women far more than women cheat on men in heterosexual relationships.

I know a lot of feminist (women in general) don't like to hear this talk (because women would like to think their man is 100% dedicated to them but...) when it comes to discussing heterosexual relationships, but men ain't prone for monogamy. Men are promiscous by nature (gay, bi or heterosexual). Even the most serious and long-term gay relationships, I know are still sexually open relationships. For gays, not lesbians, partnering/coupling doesn't exclude not having sex with other people.

So I think his wording reflects what is going on in his gay community. Very natural and realistic.

I know some people would like to politically correct the spread, but his thoughts mimicks his life experience.

Personally, I think there is a difference between gay, lesbian, bi and heterosexual relationships. On basic level, yes, we can use any kind of generic love relationship spread. However, I think there should be more spreads created based on sexual preference and gender difference. Each gender and sexual preference have different concepts of love and ideas on what constitutes a relationship. Gays differ from lesbian and homosexual differs from heterosexual.


I think his spread is fine. But again, I am not a political correct person.

BLFO said:

Nah, homosexual relationships are different. A relationship is not "A" relationship. I think interracial and interreligious relationships are different. They pose certain problems that other relationships do not.

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The ONLY problems homosexual relationships have that other relationships do not is when people are determined to see them as different. All relationships are different; that is the only difference.

I am sure his reasons for putting down the family questions is important, since many families who are uncomfortable with homosexual relationships may have certain views on the relationship in general or the person that gay or lesbian person is dating. I think gays and lesbians are more concerned about what their family thinks about their partner than heterosexuals have to care.

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Tell that to the heterosexuals whose families spend years trying to break them up - there are quite a few on this forum, and also among my friends.

As for the hiding and being faithful questions, I don't see anything wrong with that. First of all, there are plenty of heterosexual spreads in the index of women asking the question if their man is faithful to them. Or there are spreads asking what their lover is hiding from them. People want to know that in general regardless of sexual preference.

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it is only relevant when there is a question about fidelity asked. It shouldn't be ROUTINE.

And maybe for his age group, or gender preference maybe promoscuity is an issue. I am a bi female. Sorry, must admit I hear from gay mean complain about issues of cheating far more than you hear lesbians discuss it. But hell, many sex studies show that men cheat on women far more than women cheat on men in heterosexual relationships.

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I believe that recent studies show that the gap is narrowed to almost nothing..... Even so, it shouldn't be a routine question in a spread. It is begging the question.

I know a lot of feminist (women in general) don't like to hear this talk (because women would like to think their man is 100% dedicated to them but...) when it comes to discussing heterosexual relationships, but men ain't prone for monogamy. Men are promiscous by nature (gay, bi or heterosexual). Even the most serious and long-term gay relationships, I know are still sexually open relationships. For gays, not lesbians, partnering/coupling doesn't exclude not having sex with other people.

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that applies to all kids of relationships. I know MANY gay couples who are totally monogamous and which have lasted and remained so for - well,the longest is 23 years. Fidelity is not exclusive to relationships involving women.

I know some people would like to politically correct the spread, but his thoughts mimicks his life experience.

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It may - but my objections to the spread have nothing to do with PC.

Personally, I think there is a difference between gay, lesbian, bi and heterosexual relationships. On basic level, yes, we can use any kind of generic love relationship spread. However, I think there should be more spreads created based on sexual preference and gender difference. Each gender and sexual preference have different concepts of love and ideas on what constitutes a relationship. Gays differ from lesbian and homosexual differs from heterosexual.

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Only in the gender of the person you fancy. Love is love. Each PERSON may have a different concept - but I really don't see how you can lump people together in groups based on sexuality and say one group loves differently from another. MAKES love - yes, mechanically speaking.

Thanks to everybody who suggested using just a regular relationship spread with adapted pronouns in reading for out lesbian/gay/bi folks. It never even occured to me as a queer person to do anything else. I mean, I adapt pronouns and other gendered references all the time in my head, so this really isn't such a stretch...

BLFO said:

Nah, homosexual relationships are different. A relationship is not "A" relationship. I think interracial and interreligious relationships are different. They pose certain problems that other relationships do not.

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I agree that homophobia might affect a lesbian/gay relationship in a way that a heterosexual relationship will never be affected. So if homophobia is already an issue for the querent and their relationship, it might make sense to include a card or two to cover that topic. I would still word it differently and focus on ways to deal with the negative attitudes of other people instead of automatically assuming that there will be problems just because the people involved are lesbian/gay/bi.

I am sure his reasons for putting down the family questions is important, since many families who are uncomfortable with homosexual relationships may have certain views on the relationship in general or the person that gay or lesbian person is dating. I think gays and lesbians are more concerned about what their family thinks about their partner than heterosexuals have to care.

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Judging from my experience, this is nothing but an inappropriate generalization. I personally have never had any issues with anyone in my family about the individuals I have presented to them as my partners. The only problem ever was my initial coming-out as queer and the adjustment of expectations and assumptions that came with that.

Besides, not everyone might have such strong ties to their parents/family that they would deserve a position in a relationship(!) spread. Actually, if the people in my life are in any way representative, heterosexual folks pay way more attention to what their parents think than queer people do. Since we lack any useful statistics on that one, I'm afraid we'll have to settle on saying that it might be a matter of perception as well as a matter of one's "sample group."

If anyone was interested in their parents' homophobia and ways to deal with it, I'd be happy to do a reading on that. If anyone wanted to ask the cards about the best way to come out to their family or to introduce their new same-sex partner to their parents, fine with me. But those are not relationship readings.

As for the hiding and being faithful questions, I don't see anything wrong with that. First of all, there are plenty of heterosexual spreads in the index of women asking the question if their man is faithful to them. Or there are spreads asking what their lover is hiding from them. People want to know that in general regardless of sexual preference.

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Well, let's ignore for a moment that not everyone worries about their partner's faithfulness. Let's also ignore that not everyone feels threatened if their partner has secrets from them. Still, as you say, this is not a matter of sexual preference, so why not just use a general relationship spread that can give you insight into these issues?

And maybe for his age group, or gender preference maybe promoscuity is an issue. I am a bi female. Sorry, must admit I hear from gay mean complain about issues of cheating far more than you hear lesbians discuss it.

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1. Just because cheating is not discussed doesn't mean it's not happening.
2. A consensually open relationship does not equal cheating at all.
3. If we throw around clichés anyway, why not include a card that tells the lesbian couple when to expect "lesbian bed death?" From what I hear, it's a common concern - yet it seems just a tad prejudiced to assume that our particular querent will have this problem just because of their sexual orientation.

But hell, many sex studies show that men cheat on women far more than women cheat on men in heterosexual relationships.

I know a lot of feminist (women in general) don't like to hear this talk (because women would like to think their man is 100% dedicated to them but...) when it comes to discussing heterosexual relationships, but men ain't prone for monogamy. Men are promiscous by nature (gay, bi or heterosexual). Even the most serious and long-term gay relationships, I know are still sexually open relationships. For gays, not lesbians, partnering/coupling doesn't exclude not having sex with other people.

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1. It's a well-known fact among sex researchers that people lie in sex studies. Men tend to exaggerate the number of their partners (because for men many partners show what studs they are) and women downplay the number (because for women many partners means they are sluts). That's called double-standard, by the way. (And yes, I know that not all people share these value judgments, but I'm talking majorities here.) Therefore, I'd be careful with any results of any sex study and would carefully look at the way the study was conducted before believing any of it.
2. See above: A consensually open relationship does not equal cheating at all. An open relationship also does not automatically create problems for the people involved. In fact, long-term gay couples I know assure me that this is exactly why they stayed happily together...
3. You need to get out more. There are plenty of polyamorous lesbians out there and plenty of monogamous gay men.

So I think his wording reflects what is going on in his gay community. Very natural and realistic.

I know some people would like to politically correct the spread, but his thoughts mimicks his life experience.

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I have no idea if the spread mirrors the original poster's corner of the gay community. I can only say that it certaily doesn't reflect my corner of the queer universe. Politically correct has nothing to do with it. It's a matter of overgeneralization and stereotypical thinking, nothing else.

Personally, I think there is a difference between gay, lesbian, bi and heterosexual relationships. On basic level, yes, we can use any kind of generic love relationship spread. However, I think there should be more spreads created based on sexual preference and gender difference. Each gender and sexual preference have different concepts of love and ideas on what constitutes a relationship. Gays differ from lesbian and homosexual differs from heterosexual.

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I don't believe in any such fundamental differences between gays, lesbians, bisexuals and heterosexuals. Especially not when it comes to positions in a general relationship spread.

I still believe it would make sense to have more relationship spreads that covered a wider range of relationship models - no matter if gay or straight. For example, I have been delighted to find a few three-person relationship spreads in the spread index (and I have used one for a friend's polyamorous triangle). But even for the vast variety of relationships I have seen in my life so far, most of them could be covered by most basic relationship spreads or a general problem-solving spread. If a particular spread didn't fit as-is, a little tweaking (i.e. leaving this position out and adding that position, or rearranging the order, or renaming positions) has always gotten me the exact spread I needed without making an entirely new spread. But maybe I'm just good at such transfers and transformations because of my queerness...

gregory said:

All relationships are different; that is the only difference.

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Exactly. And what else you said.

Just to throw in my two cents:

As a gay man, I am not open to the idea of an "open relationship" (as in sex with other people) in any form or fashion. If they aren't satisfied with just me then I don't really see a point with being in a relationship with them. Sex isn't even the main event to me; I'm in it for love! (Which is probably why I spend most of my time single, I bet lol.)

Thanks for effectively validating my post

Wedekit said:

Just to throw in my two cents:

As a gay man, I am not open to the idea of an "open relationship" (as in sex with other people) in any form or fashion. If they aren't satisfied with just me then I don't really see a point with being in a relationship with them. Sex isn't even the main event to me; I'm in it for love! (Which is probably why I spend most of my time single, I bet lol.)

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Well said Wedekit, To me I love without sex...! Love is a feeling, Sex is an object.

I don't know what I caused, but I did this spread out of my exprirence only...

P.S. This spread is like any other spread like a girl has her "girly spread" for her circle of friends, for example does he love? how many marriages i'm I going to be in? are my friends loyal to me? of course it can be changed to a man version/ This is simply for gay man, kinda like a gay circle of friends ;-)"

jrr01 said:

P.S. This spread is like any other spread like a girl has her "girly spread" for her circle of friends, for example does he love? how many marriages i'm I going to be in? are my friends loyal to me? of course it can be changed to a man version/ This is simply for gay man, kinda like a gay circle of friends ;-)"

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I wouldn't actually set up a spread like that (in either case) as a generic; I would set up a spread based on the issues surrounding my sitter. I would never in my entire girly life have wanted to ask how many marriages I would have, for instance. That's my whole point here - every sitter is different. The only kinds of things that are universal in a spread are things like "What is at issue in my situation now ? What is blocking me ? What will help me to move forward ?" and the like - because EVERYONE has a past, present and future.

You've "caused" an interesting thread. Don't worry about it

My own objection to the spread is in great part to do with tarot method:

1. In general, it is unwise to make assumptions about facts that are unproven. It sets up traps for the reader and querent alike. This spread, as written, contains closed questions, which are a big no-no in any kind of investigation, including using tarot cards, because they are based entirely on unproven assumptions. The questions: "what is he hiding from me?" and "how will this relationship end?" are closed questions. They assume facts that are not proven by the other cards.

2. The spread also contains yes/no questions, which simply can't be answered satisfactorily within this kind of spread. "Will he remain faithful?" is a yes/no question. All you need is to draw a card like the 3 of Pentacles for that one, and you'll be scratching your head as to what it indicates: is it "yes", he'll be faithful because it's a positive card? Or does it mean there'll be a triangle because of the number three, and therefore the answer is no, he won't? Or does it mean that one or other of you will have to work at remaining faithful? Or will he be unfaithful not sexually, but by becoming a workoholic?

3. In addition to those objections, I completely agree with Cat's perspective that families and society on the whole have nothing to do in a relationship spread unless the querent mentions them as something affecting the relationship - in which case, the focus ought to be on empowering the querent: firstly with the kind of question asked in this spread, to see if the feeling is objective or if the querent has a victim complex; and then by asking how this querent or couple can deal either with imagined persecution (if previously established by the cards), or with actual family or social disapproval (again, if previously established by the cards).


I have always found, when reading for gay people, that adapting existing relationship spreads with cards to cover the specific issues my querents have more useful than creating a separate relationship spread just for gay people. However, I appreciate some gay people might find a straight-out-of-the-box spread for them a handy tool. I just don't think this spread makes the cut, however, in tarot terms, for the reasons I mentioned above.

That's actually the same genre of objection I have - a generic spread needs, IMHO, to be open-ended, not to make assumptions about what knowledge is sought/appropriate to seek.