if I am only to own one Marseille...

Richard

......Speaking of Dussere: if you have a friend pick up the Grimaud in a store, you might consider having him or her check to see if they have Dusserre's version of the Marteau deck. Basically it's the same deck as the Grimaud, the big difference being that the blue is slightly lighter. Not at all a "light blue," but light enough you can readily see the black line work in the blue areas. I read about that version here but I don't think I've ever seen it for sale online. I got my copy at a store in Montreal.
I found the Dusserre facsimile listed at Somerville's online store in England, and he had it sent to me from some warehouse or something in France. This was several years ago at about the time when he closed his shop. I hope it's still in print. Aside from the lighter blues, Le Bateleur apparently has been redrawn for the later Grimauds. Besides a few other differences, in the earlier version there are no dice among his props (nor are there dice in other Conver reconstructions, such as the CBD).

ETA. I'm not a fan of the Dodal. If I wanted to go that far back, it would be the Flornoy Noblet. However, not being particularly interested in relics, I'm quite happy with my "inauthentic" Conver reconstructions. Of course, the Marteau-Grimaud is essentially a classic in its own right.
 

Lee

I like the Dodal because it's got a great Krazy Kat vibe going on. That said, these days I usually read with the Spanish.
 

Aeric

I was looking at the Angel Tarot, but I'd prefer French titles on a French-style deck.

That said, was the Marseille woodcut style ever employed in Italy, with Italian titles in historical decks? From what I understand, the major artistic transitions were from Visconti style in Italy, to Marseille woodcuts in France, then Soprafino style with Dellarocca back in Italy. Italians played card games with the French Marseilles in the early 1800s, so I'm wondering if there's an Italian woodcut deck out there somewhere. All of the decks I've seen are French.
 

Lee

That said, was the Marseille woodcut style ever employed in Italy, with Italian titles in historical decks? From what I understand, the major artistic transitions were from Visconti style in Italy, to Marseille woodcuts in France, then Soprafino style with Dellarocca back in Italy. Italians played card games with the French Marseilles in the early 1800s, so I'm wondering if there's an Italian woodcut deck out there somewhere. All of the decks I've seen are French.
Here's one:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/ancient-liguria-piedmont/
 

Aeric

Wooooo! I should have thought to go down that entire list of Marsies.

Dammit, Lee, stop making this decision even harder! LOL.
 

Lee

Actually it looks like that one is out of print. I'm not finding it on Alida, and an Amazon seller is listing it at "New at $1,299." :bugeyed:
 

delizt

ok, forget what I said before, if I had only one it would be the Pierre Madenié

then the Spanish....


took mine out and looked at them after reading this thread!
 

Moonbow

'traditional in feel and colouring...'

Grimaud, because the colours today represent what they were probably like when new, and its easily available. Its a TdM II

Or Noblet. Again its easily available and the colouring is accurate in Flornoy's reproduction. Its a TdM I
 

Aeric

Back again.

All right, this time I've narrowed it down to two: CBD and Camoin-Jodorowsky. As much I adored staring at the facsmilies of Madenie and Chosson, they're outside what I'm willing to spend for the moment. I also like to beat up my decks through use, and reports of the clean repros claim them sturdier cardstock than the facsimiles that can take a beating over time.

Previously, I said that I preferred the primary-coloured Grimaud to these, but I realized over time that I'd like some green in my cards too. Variety's the spice of life, and the colour green has its own qualities for which the solid blues and yellows of Grimaud can't compensate. I compare the large gold coin on the Ace of Coins; Grimaud's is pure yellow, while CamJo and CBD both have lovely accents of silver-blue and red, making the finer details stand out. In this, they feel more sumptuous. As much as Grimaud is a classic, the Rider-Waite of TdM for the 20th century, I find myself gravitating away.

Now here's the strengths and weaknesses I find of each of the finalists.

CBD

Poised to become if not already the "Smith-Waite Centennial" of TdM, at least on AT. A new, faithful repro for the 21st century, whose dynamic hasn't disinterested anyone I've seen on here. I've seen more praise of CBD than any other repro. CBD is more historically accurate than CamJo in flow and figure, and has few if any unique "additions" to speak of.

The weakness, I find, is Ben-Dov's choice to restructure the facial expressions to appeal to modern sensibilities. Almost everyone has a slight secretive half-smile, intending the deck to be more open and inviting to a reader, where I was more drawn to the solemnity of the originals. Where Camoin seeded several personal changes to certain cards in the CamJo, nearly the entire CBD roster has been recast with new people in the old clothes, as if you're looking at a painting of Queen Elizabeth I, with Cate or Judi's face replacing hers. I feel as if I'm looking at those fairground standups of Medieval people with holes cut in the faces for you to put yours in and have photographed. Ok, maybe those last two were too extreme analogies, but nonetheless lots of characters in CBD feel different from what I expect; it's them, but it's not. I don't know whether this can be adjusted to over time.

CamJo

The colours of CamJo are deeper than CBD, with its particular darker hue of green lending a forest-green appeal to the clothes, against CDB's brighter bluish-green that jumps out at you. I prefer darker colours, which is why I initially stacked the Grimaud's heavy use of blues against these babies. CamJo also seems to retain the vast majority of the original facial expressions.

The weakness, of course, is Camoin's additions, like the Juggler's dice and the Tower's door, that seem based on little more than CamJo's own visual acuity and what they claimed to see in faded lines. But I have to ask myself how different this is from the many Waite variants on the market, who each saw what they believed in Waite's deck and released their own versions with changes, like the New Vision, the Albano recolouring, and Pam A through D reprints. Camoin took his inspirations from a few other decks, such as Grimaud and Conver, so it's a bit like a Rider-Albano-SWC composite deck I suppose, incorporating good bits of each.


Why am I spilling all this? I know it seems like I might as well just give up as I'll never truly find a TdM on the market that fits my appeal. But at this point, I'll take what wrenches my finger toward the proper button to click. Can you mention anything that might persuade me toward one or the other?