if I am only to own one Marseille...
Richard
The Camoin-Jodorowsky has a few idiosyncrasies that caused me to decide not to buy it. http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=72426 If one is to have only a single Marseille deck, I think that a more conventional Conver reconstruction would be preferable. Just my 2¢.
Aeric
Yes I read that thread with interest. The secrecy with which Camoin talks of his sources reminds me of Waite's own admonishment that most of the Waite symbolism is beyond the unwashed masses but he's going to provide it anyway. Meanwhile other authors decide to reveal the explanations and sources that Waite denied, so eventually we get it all. Maybe one day someone will do the same for Camoin, or he'll decide to spill it. Who knows.
But you're right, a sole deck ought to embody convention more than style. Maybe someday with more money I'll get a CamJo.
But you're right, a sole deck ought to embody convention more than style. Maybe someday with more money I'll get a CamJo.
Yves Le Marseillais
My 2 €uros
Hello all,
Regarding quality of facsimiles, I read with interest your comments and views and give you my 2 ...€ (I am €uropeans folks !... ha ha):
Square corners and satin finish: I choose to reproduce some historical decks such as Pierre Madenié 1709 and François Chosson 1736 and to respect all aspects of originals:
Square corners: At this period of time it was like this and I agree that cards could be more damaged in time after many spreads.
In fact it depends how you do your manipulation of cards. Cards must be respected and slowly handled: If your search a new way you will find it for sure. Allows yourself to do it...
I have thought about a round corner edition (production costs are equal: It's not a question of money but a personal decision) but finally opted for square corners.
I have intention to try to round by myself one deck of each for my personal use and just for see if it's really better. Will informs you when it's done.
Dimensions
Thickness of cards (in fact originals are a little less heavy.... But I love strong cards)
Colours of course
Final aspect of cards: Original cards were smoothed with a soap application via a round stone and by hand.
It gives a satin aspect to cards and it's more easy to shuffle cards before spreading. That's why I decided to ask for a satin finition of cards: It avoid any reflects, keep old look aspect and it preserve cards from surface damaging.
I did not wanted cards to have a "plastic" aspect but wanted to protect them sufficiently.
Here again satin of glossy finition are same prices in production.
So, sorry for you folks but my next facsimile (Claude Burdel 1751) will too be square corners and satin finition.
I agree with most of your views about Hadar and Camoin/Jodo decks but you understood that their are not my best decks of course.
Salutations from Marseille City
Yves LM
Hello all,
Regarding quality of facsimiles, I read with interest your comments and views and give you my 2 ...€ (I am €uropeans folks !... ha ha):
Square corners and satin finish: I choose to reproduce some historical decks such as Pierre Madenié 1709 and François Chosson 1736 and to respect all aspects of originals:
Square corners: At this period of time it was like this and I agree that cards could be more damaged in time after many spreads.
In fact it depends how you do your manipulation of cards. Cards must be respected and slowly handled: If your search a new way you will find it for sure. Allows yourself to do it...
I have thought about a round corner edition (production costs are equal: It's not a question of money but a personal decision) but finally opted for square corners.
I have intention to try to round by myself one deck of each for my personal use and just for see if it's really better. Will informs you when it's done.
Dimensions
Thickness of cards (in fact originals are a little less heavy.... But I love strong cards)
Colours of course
Final aspect of cards: Original cards were smoothed with a soap application via a round stone and by hand.
It gives a satin aspect to cards and it's more easy to shuffle cards before spreading. That's why I decided to ask for a satin finition of cards: It avoid any reflects, keep old look aspect and it preserve cards from surface damaging.
I did not wanted cards to have a "plastic" aspect but wanted to protect them sufficiently.
Here again satin of glossy finition are same prices in production.
So, sorry for you folks but my next facsimile (Claude Burdel 1751) will too be square corners and satin finition.
I agree with most of your views about Hadar and Camoin/Jodo decks but you understood that their are not my best decks of course.
Salutations from Marseille City
Yves LM
BSwett
I got the JodoCam, and aside from the wide rounded corners that seem to not match the outlines (attention to detail
) i actually really like it. I'm feeling like this might become a well used deck in my arsenal… I think that their elitist sales pitch about how only they can restore the true tarot is a bunch of Bullcrap, but the added details like the eggs or the tower door, don't bother me at all. I actually think that if one is to recreate a deck from scratch, one should play around a bit and put some personal touches in it. It would suck if we had no Dodal's and Noblet's and Conver decks, etc. with all their little details and differences! It would have been nice if this two snobs would get off their high horses, admit this fact, and just release this lovely deck without being such charlatans about it…At the same time that I recieved the Camoin deck, i got the FREAKING FANTASTIC Pierre Madenie Facsimile, and last night i was looking at them side by side. It is really interesting how close they are to each other in their line work and size. Some of the cards are nearly identical! I don't know if this was one of their main sources, and i haven't been able to closely compare the Madenie with a Conver deck, but this two truly are more that cousins.
BUt going back to the OP. Forget about all this and get The Spanish Tarot
BSwett
Lets remember that not all rounded corners are the same. A tiny radius cut can seem almost square yet solve the stabbing and flaking problems…
My 2 céntimos (I'm from Centroamérica
)Yves Le Marseillais
Tiny radius don't change aspect of cards
Hello BSweet,
Thanks for your comments re Madenié. Really appreciated.
Your are right: I will test with a tiny radius i.e. 2 mm.
A super machine exist Made in USA: I saw this on Aeclectic too our best provider for Tarot fanatiks like... us.
Happy Week End to all
Yves
Lets remember that not all rounded corners are the same. A tiny radius cut can seem almost square yet solve the stabbing and flaking problems…
My 2 céntimos (I'm from Centroamérica
Hello BSweet,
Thanks for your comments re Madenié. Really appreciated.
Your are right: I will test with a tiny radius i.e. 2 mm.
A super machine exist Made in USA: I saw this on Aeclectic too our best provider for Tarot fanatiks like... us.
Happy Week End to all
Yves
Richard
It's mostly Camoin who is making the strange claims. Also, I believe he had the last word on the design of the images.
Inconnu
I want to be clear. I love my Madenie pack. But I can fan shuffle a Grimaud thousands of times without effect to the cards, the Madenie not so. The square corner is a weak point where separation will start. Rounded corners are less prone to do so.
I want facsimile cards to be just that. Square corners, authentic type finish, as authentic as possible. I think there is also a market for cards with old imagery that are as durable as modern cards.
So I hope that self publishing card makers will respond to this. The Grimaud has filled this market only so, so.
There is a large group of enthusiasts that would use a Madenie style pack, (or many other early TDM,s) everyday if it was practical, if the cards were durable.
Yves Le Marseillais
round and square peoples: The Cards Battle )
Hello Inconnu,
You know what: To spread this old historical decks and informs a large group of fellows about this very nice and detailed decks, I could may be propose the TWO version:
Square corners for collectionners: To preserve a real facsimile philosophy.
Small radius rounded decks (I think 2 mm is best compromise option): To please tarologists who use decks for spreads.
But this rounded decks should be hand finished by...... myself as an additional process to my already individual process of checking decks card by card, packaging with old wrapper (I had to print by myself on my good old A 3 printer with this Nepal handmade paper).
I will try for one or two decks I promises and will see how long and good is result.
If it works well and if YOU folks ask for this special version, I could propose it for ALL my facsimiles (past and future ones).
Same prize of course in spite this additional job: I imagine myself already cutting 80 cards per deck: 4 corners x 80 = 320 operations hum........ Only a crazy Tarot Geek like me could do this for sure ha ha ha !!!
Yves "Nut"
)Hello Inconnu,
You know what: To spread this old historical decks and informs a large group of fellows about this very nice and detailed decks, I could may be propose the TWO version:
Square corners for collectionners: To preserve a real facsimile philosophy.
Small radius rounded decks (I think 2 mm is best compromise option): To please tarologists who use decks for spreads.
But this rounded decks should be hand finished by...... myself as an additional process to my already individual process of checking decks card by card, packaging with old wrapper (I had to print by myself on my good old A 3 printer with this Nepal handmade paper).
I will try for one or two decks I promises and will see how long and good is result.
If it works well and if YOU folks ask for this special version, I could propose it for ALL my facsimiles (past and future ones).
Same prize of course in spite this additional job: I imagine myself already cutting 80 cards per deck: 4 corners x 80 = 320 operations hum........ Only a crazy Tarot Geek like me could do this for sure ha ha ha !!!
Yves "Nut"
