78 Tarot Carnival

Anise

Couldn't find a thread for this, but 78 Tarot is at it again: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kayti/78-tarot-carnival

There are still some Early Bird 3 pledges available.

I like the themes they come up with, but I've never gotten into their decks because collabs. This one though...attractive! Who doesn't love a bright, colorful circus? Maybe the disjointedness one might expect is acceptable here because of the carnival theme.
 

Symphony

I love that :D I've never been interested in the 78 tarot before but had to back that one :) it's gorgeous
 

gregory

The other two are lovely, and hang together really well.
 

Symphony

Just changed to the Carnival and Nautical deck reward, the nautical one does look lovely :) just shows I shouldn't be allowed on the Internet when having a bad day at work :p excited now
 

Anise

Any peeps on the fence? Maybe a free sticker and freshly unlocked tarot poster will change your mind. =D

What's cool is that all the stretch goals seem attainable. And are things that I actually want. Bags are up next, but it would be lovely to get some prints thrown in with this deck.
 

Calayvie

I've been eyeing this deck for a while. I'm really into The Divine Circus Oracle cards at the moment, but today I've realised an important issue of decks like these, that thankfully isn't an issue in the above-mentioned Oracle deck.
Anyway...

Animals in circuses should be banned. They are treated horrendously, merely for the purpose of making money, and entertaining people.

I've just taken a close look at the Tarot 78 deck, and it has the Chariot card with 2 circus elephants, which I dislike intensely. There are also a few other animals throughout the cards.

The Seven of Swords also has an elephant, but I think the artist Tanya Ross has depicted a much more realistic and awareness-orientated image, showing a cruel looking trainer and a miserable, abused elephant, with a sign above saying "Big Name Circus, The Greatest Place on Earth!"
This is what we should be looking at, so that we see and face the cruelty, and hopefully decide to ban the practice of using animals for our entertainment in circuses.

This card by Tanya Ross is a beacon of light and hope. Its one card of 78 that raises awareness while also fitting the meaning of the card.
It is probably the only reason why I will purchase this deck now.

I'd love to know what she says about her card in the companion book, but I cannot afford the complete kit. Postage packs on about $30 more onto the price for me!

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gregory

Maybe that allows for the fact that animals - ANY animals - having to pull a chariot are being enslaved ? Tarot needs less pleasant images for less pleasant things, after all. Some of the things Bosch painted are truly awful - but make their point.

Tarot is not about being politically correct, or about avoiding images that people don't happen to like. There ARE elephants in circuses, and that is a fact of life that is legitimately depicted on a card. This also holds up for historical attitudes - there are POVs shown in older decks that are anathema to us today - but which were perfectly acceptable at the time that the card was created. Showing all people of other races as inferior, for instance, was the accepted way of things around 1900, and even when I was a child it was an accepted truth, taught in school - a genuinely held belief based on "scientific evidence", long since debunked. Someone who blasts a deck from the early 20th century for showing that fact in a card is profoundly wrong, even though we now know that all men (and women, oops !) were created equal.

We can't, and mustn't try and turn tarot into a dictionary of PC. If one person finds these things offensive - don't buy the deck. But don't try and rein artists in for depicting something that is out there but which you don't happen to like.
 

Dee Ell

Maybe I'm wrong, but gregory I didn't take Calayvie's comment as saying Tarot should be PC and whitewashed... just that things we KNOW are a problem today (eg animal torture in circuses) shouldn't be glossed over in an idealized manner if they're going to be included in a modern deck. That's why she doesn't have a problem with the 7 of Swords card, bc although it shows an abused animal, it shows the truth of the sad situation, not the candy-coated farce those operations try to pass off.

Sure, historical decks have their place and if someone finds them too disturbing they don't have to use them. But if an artist were to create a deck NOW that not only depicted but *celebrated* racist stereotypes would you tsk at the people calling them out for it?

As an artist myself, there's a big difference between using difficult imagery to bring attention to a painful truth (eg animal abuse that's still rampant in our society) vs difficult imagery that revels (consciously or not) in the pain, suffering, and subjugation of "lesser" beings - whether that means other races in centuries past or other species in current times.

Of course we don't have to buy a deck, but we can always speak out against the exploitation of other beings for human "entertainment."
 

gregory

Maybe I'm wrong, but gregory I didn't take Calayvie's comment as saying Tarot should be PC and whitewashed... just that things we KNOW are a problem today (eg animal torture in circuses) shouldn't be glossed over in an idealized manner if they're going to be included in a modern deck. That's why she doesn't have a problem with the 7 of Swords card, bc although it shows an abused animal, it shows the truth of the sad situation, not the candy-coated farce those operations try to pass off.

As an artist myself, there's a big difference between using difficult imagery to bring attention to a painful truth (eg animal abuse that's still rampant in our society) vs difficult imagery that revels (consciously or not) in the pain, suffering, and subjugation of "lesser" beings - whether that means other races in centuries past or other species in current times.

Of course we don't have to buy a deck, but we can always speak out against the exploitation of other beings for human "entertainment."
I know - but the card referenced was Chariot. And what horses (or gryphons or mice) would be thrilled to have to pull one ? It's slavery - just as a circus elephant experiences it. It may have been intended to show exactly that. We don't know.

Sure, historical decks have their place and if someone finds them too disturbing they don't have to use them. But if an artist were to create a deck NOW that not only depicted but *celebrated* racist stereotypes would you tsk at the people calling them out for it?
No. But there have been threads here that blasted - for instance - a particular card in the Waite/Smith deck (and I'm NOT going there again as it all got very nasty) which specifically references the old "noble savage" chestnut. All hell broke loose - how could we suggest they were racist; of COURSE that card didn't reference anything of the kind. But it DOES. And they weren't being racist - that concept didn't exist then. That was the accepted mindset at the time, and it is NOT for us to say it wasn't. Any deck is of its time. And too often we, in the now, don't take account of that.

I do NOT actually happen to think that chariot card is celebrating circuses. And to be absolutely honest - some people think circuses are fine. I suppose they have a right to show that in their art, as well..
 

Calayvie

Dee Ell, that was beautifully articulated!

Gregory, well, I wasn't going to go into the whole issue of animals being enslaved in general. There was a great thread recently about 'vegan' decks that opened my eyes to how much we take animals for granted, for example I could go horseriding on a horse I had loved and respected for years, and not realise just how one sided and dominating my relationship with the horse was, because I harnessed and rode it. And now thanks to that thread, I am more aware of even the little ways that animals are enslaved, disrespected, or dominated.
I have pet cats, they are essentially not free to live in the wild as they should...
But, I think you've missed my point, because I'm talking about circus animals being tortured and abused, and how art and media and people just turn a blind eye to it, normalising the practice without showing the true reality of it, which essentially misleads people who don't know any better, and gives others a place to stand and say "well, poo happens", being easier to just accept it, or ignore it, than try to do something about it.

As Dee Ell said, the 7 of swords is not sugarcoating anything! Its showing the reality of the situation as it should be shown.
Its the pretending that nothing is wrong with animals in circuses that is "PC" and "whitewashing", making those who don't want to know, feel better about not doing anything about it!
For me, the 7 of swords is a brutal card that could bring me to tears. But knowing that its not hiding the ugly from people who don't already know or just don't want to see, I see it as the reality that is less than pleasant.

Enslaving a horse to pull a chariot is a bit different to elephants being starved and dehydrated so they don't "soil in the ring". Being beaten and tortured (with some state of the art screwed up stuff!) to "train" them to do tricks and stuff so people can be entertained! I am aware that animals all over the world, even those pulling chariots, could be subjected to similar fates, but I'm just pointing out in case you weren't aware, the extent of the "torture" I'm talking about, in case you thought it could be likened to simply "pulling a chariot".

People can make whatever decks they like within the law. And I can voice my opinion about them. I'd rather stand up for the rights of those that can't defend themselves, than be turning my back on it all - I might as well be holding the chains, shackles, beating sticks and whips myself if I'm going to turn a blind eye!

Making people aware of the situation is one of the ways to initiate change.

Yes, people may think circuses are fine. I did too when I was little! Until I learnt that they were cruel. How did I find out? My parents pointed it out, and I gained further awareness myself by learning.
You don't know what you don't know, which is why turning a blind eye to the cruelty and normalising the practice enables others to do the same, because they aren't made aware.

And for those that think being cruel to animals is OK, the more people telling them that its not OK, the fewer that will continue. Laws that say its illegal prevent some others from doing it. I know we can't stop everybody, but every bit counts, and its worth at least trying!

So its not about the Chariot card, or the elephants, its about the "circus elephants". Its about time the depiction of animals in circuses for peoples entertainment was not considered normal, humane or OK, because its not.

I hope I made some sense [emoji4]



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