Ancient Italian Decks

[Little Baron]

Hi everyone

*Before I start, I apologise for my ignorance around this subject*

I was hoping with your help to try and find 'my' perfect ancient italian deck. I have done searches and read reviews but thought maybe some of you, with your knowledge, might be able to help me illiminate many and narrow down my search to the one that is right for me.

So far, I have seen the 'Sopriani' (is that right?) deck and the 'Ancient Italian' deck which seems to be a little brasher in colour. Does anybody use one that seems closer in colouring to the original. Are these out of print now? What ancient Italian deck would you recommend and are they hard to find. I am going on a shopping spree tomorrow, rather than ordering on the internet, and wondered how available the are in the shops right now. I am in Kent, England, at the moment.

Any information would be appreciated.

Cheers guys!

Yaboot

 

[Lee]

Hi Yaboot, comparing two Lo Scarabeo-produced Soprafino decks, the Classical Tarots has been recolored by one of their artists in bright pastel colors, but their Ancient Italian Tarots is actually a completely faithful reproduction of a real antique deck, with the original colors. If you're looking for a deck that looks like those decks looked back when they were created, I'd suggest the Ancient Italian deck.

I'm not familiar with other publishers' versions, so I'll let others comment on those.

-- Lee

 

[Cerulean]

Funny...

I've seen and have different versions of the fancy Soprafino.

I'd go with Lee's suggestion if you are looking for a cost-conscious sample of 19th century tarot with a book or two that uses it for illustration. I've not seen another version of the Ancient Italian except the one by Lo Scarabeo, which is also known as the Sessia Serraville 1880. So I like the Lo Scarabeo version because that's the only one I've seen.

http://www.trigono.com/tarots/TDI011-antichi-tarocchi-italiani.htm

Lee's review is nice as well.

http://www.tarotpassages.com/ancientclassicallb.htm

I still have that John Dee book with large blow-ups of the Ancient Italian deck and just saw another book that might use it for illustrations. I'll post the title here once I find it again. I don't think these books describe the pip decorations in detail for reading, but they aren't bad companion books.

But if you are used to pristine graphics and costume detail, the aged smudges can be bothersome. If you decide on a true Di Gumppenberg and do not like the Lo Scarabeo version, please post...and others will also give you suggestions about the most beautiful Soprafino coloring
from Il Menghello or Solloene...I believe the Il Menghello is the only one available.

http://www.trigono.com/tarots/tarocco_soprafino.htm

Alidastore.com is less expensive because they ship in a slower way...

Hope that helps.

Cerulean Mari

 

[Jewel-ry]

Hi Yaboot

There have been some interesting threads about these decks.

I have the Classical, the Tarocco Soprafino Gumppenberg and the Tarocco Italiano del Dotti. The Classical is easy to use. I agree the colours have been doctored and it also has a laminated finish but it does make it more sturdy. The other two are just beautiful to own. I love to look at them and I have used them once or twice but they are made of card and I am not sure how much use they will stand. Out of the two, I much prefer the Soprafino over the Dotti. It has so much more detail, much of which I found quite fascinating to study in the light of Mark Filipas alphabet masquerade. Please do take a look at these threads, linked here:

The Classical I bought from a shop in Bournemouth and the other two were ordered from Alida who were very quick with the order so maybe thats the best way to go if you decide on one of those. They come beautifully packaged and tied up with ribbon. I love them, they are very special.

http://67.19.40.82/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24103&perpage=10&highlight=soprafino&pagenumber=1

 

[Moonbow]

Hi Yaboot

I have the Tarocco Soprafino - Gumppenberg - Il Meneghello (as Marie has mentioned) and it is probably the most beautiful deck that I have. I am not used to reading with it yet and have not given this deck any attention other than oggle the cards. But in my opinion if you want an Ancient Italian tarot you will find this one very difficult to beat.

I haven't seen it in the UK though and I ordered mine from Alida.

 

[Macavity]

I do have (and have a question about) the I Meneghello version of the Gumpenberg (1835) "Soprafino" deck. - Compared to some of the other manufacturers! But firstly some background opinion...

The LoS "Classical Tarot" is on nice laminated cardstock and has the most detailed images. But, Aaaargh, those keywords and consequent image clipping? But I see this as a "re-creation" of an original, rather than a reproduction? The LoS "Ancient Italian" dispenses with keywords, but it appears to come from slightly different (original) plates, with slightly "inferior" workmanship and different colours! Perhaps this is the most practical version for GENERAL use... And, as Lee says, it is a faithful reproduction of *A* particular deck?

The Meneghello is... interesting. In my version (729/2000!) the images correspond to those of the "classical", but are printed on unlaminated (matt) cardstock. Consequently the images are slightly less defined than the LoS "Classical" images (I guess because of a certain bleeding of the ink into the surface). But, this is no bad thing, and may give them that "antique" look? Aside: Menegehello (generally!) seem to take more time and trouble with the "distressed" look significant care to clear up major blemishes WITHOUT resporting to clipping the images! I heared some rumours that laminated versions were produced for the U.S. market? And, overall, you pays your money?

Perhaps I Meneghello is the most "authentic" reproduction? But I do have one gripe about this version - namely non-uniformity of card size! Rough edges, I can hack (not literally) but a 2mm variation in major card dimentios, gets a bit much! Sure, it gives the cards an "artisanal" feel, but IMO renders them quasi-impossible to shuffle! Q: Is this a feature of Meneghello decks or was mine a "Friday afternoon" job?

I am tempted to "even them up" a bit, since it is unlikely I will resell them. (As an aside: Having been through his process by *hand* and it is not something I recommend, nor for the faint-hearted!) Despite my observations above, I think I will "upgrade" some of my other decks to the Meneghello versions e.g. the Minchiate Etrururia deck, where IMO LoS have clipped/enlarged some of the images.

Macavity

 

[Jewel-ry]

Perhaps I Meneghello is the most "authentic" reproduction? But I do have one gripe about this version - namely non-uniformity of card size! Rough edges, I can hack (not literally) but a 2mm variation in major card dimentios, gets a bit much! Sure, it gives the cards an "artisanal" feel, but IMO renders them quasi-impossible to shuffle! Q: Is this a feature of Meneghello decks or was mine a "Friday afternoon" job?

Mines the same Macavity! Very uneven. I wouldn't dare try to even them up (I remember what happened when I tried to even up my daughter fringe ).

 

[Macavity]

Thank You Jewel-ry. That's a relief then...

Yeah, I now have visions of the "fringe effect" too!

M.

As a postscript to the above (economy of posts!) I do rather like the LoS "Ancient Tarot of Lombardy". For the non-woodblock devotee, this has most of the "advantages" I was seeking above. It has a rather pretty and... "understated" quality too.

 

[Little Baron]

Thanks for all of your help. Looked through the threads etc. Very interesting.

Finally settled on the Soprafino. Ordered it through Alida, but due to not being used to the whole process, I am unsure whether I did it right lol. Only time will tell - (four years later - it should be have been hear by now, surely! - lol).

Lets hope it all goes well. Has anone ordered from England? Did it take a long time?

Yaboot

 

[Moonbow]

I went through the same as you - the site is not very clear so I wondered if I'd done it right too.... It came though, and was a speedy service - if I remember rightly I had a confirmation email from them.