Can Tarot really foretell the Future ?

[Sulis]

I agree with gregory and Sulis. Suppose you did a reading on the outcome of a certain test that you were supposed to be taking (a written test, I mean). The outcome of the reading was not very good, yet the answer there is obvious, and also responsible: study harder. That's a positive end to the reading yet also does not give any false hope.

So you do study harder, and give it your all and end up passing the test. The reading was not wrong, nor was the advice given. On the contrary, accepting the outcome as the end would merely mean you would sit back, tell yourself you would fail the test anyway and not even try. There is no guarantee that studying for the test would make you pass it, but not studying is in fact a guarantee that you will fail.

Actually closrapexa - EXACTLY that did happen here - someone asked if her daughter would pass her exams and the cards said no - we all agreed. She took to studying - something she hadn't exactly been doing - and DID pass - rather well, as I recall. Good shot

Or the readings were all wrong, which is the original issue I brought up in this thread.

No, the readings were not wrong because the future is changeable.. The querant took their reading and used it to change their future into the one they wanted.

That is surely what a tarot reading is for.

 

[gregory]

I think we have to be careful with ambiguity with everyone. But if a person is determined to hear only what they want to hear, there's very little we can actually do except keeping trying to be as clear as we can.

Which applies to us ALL.

I'm not a lawyer, BTW.

No, the readings were not wrong because the future is changeable.. The querant took their reading and used it to change their future into the one they wanted.

That is surely what a tarot reading is for.

That is certainly what I believe it is for.

 

[Nikita_]

Hi Nikita_

No, I think you seem to have completely missed my point and mistaken my saying that I'd look for a positive outcome for my saying that I'd tell the querant what they wanted to hear.. That isn't what I said at all.

From what I can see from your posts you have a very binary view of things; tarot either can or it can't predict the future when in reality I think things are much more complex than that.. Tarot can sometimes predict the future if every factor affecting that future lines up..
You see there is no one future, there are many futures, possibly an infinite number of futures and it takes many factors happening now in the present to determine which future will be.
Imagine yourself at a fixed point - that's now, the present.
In order to get to a certain future you need to do certain things but everything else that affects that future needs to do a certain thing too.. If one thing is out then the future you get will be a different one, one of the infinite number of possible futures that there are and it's not just you who affects the future and that's what makes it so difficult to predict.

In your example, the only positive future you're seeing is if the querant ends up with the guy she wants to be with but that's not the only possible positive outcome and if the cards say that's not going to happen then it certainly isn't positive for her to continue to pursue that outcome.. A more positive way to end the reading would be to ask how she should best handle this and take it from there.

A positive outcome and the outcome the querant wants are not the same thing..

I hope that's clarified my post a little and will reassure you that I certainly do not read in a 'dangerous and misleading' way..

I understand what you are saying-partly, I think in my reply to you I was continuing my rant against what someonew said earlier on in the thread about giving people hope, even unfounded hope, self delusion, etc.
Certainly I am a black and white person, maybe the binary opposition I live by is not the answer, but I've been there; I mean, I've been madly in love and in pain over a failed relationship, and hearing a tarot reader right then telling me that the end of that relationship was for the best, that someone better was waiting for me, and so on, was the most irritating, unbearable thing I had to listen to-much worse than someone saying "It's over, forget about him, you'll never see him again." That bluntness and harshness is a slap in the face, but it wakes you up. Any attempt at consoling me in that situation with the promise of something that may come in the future-maybe- to me sounds like a tasteless joke-and insulting. But that's just me....

 

[Nikita_]

Just to add, I didn't say that this at all, I said this:

That is not getting 'the desired outcome', it is making your life how you want it to be.. In your example, the lady wants the guy but what if that guy really isn't right for her.. Her 'desired outcome' is not going to make her life into the wonderful life she wants, she may end up with a guy who will ultimately not be right for her and they'll both be terribly unhappy.. Tarot flags that up by saying she can't have him and so we move on to trying to get her to see what will make her happy..

This is my point when I said that things are much more complicated than 'either, or' 'this or that' 'black and white'...

Many people are saying the same thing and it's backed up by science now.. You seem to be so set in your belief that you're actually bending what people are saying to match your own world view, one where if something is not right then it's wrong and I think that's taking a very simplistic view.

What is backed up by science ?

 

[Sulis]

The fact that there are many futures.
If you get into quantum physics you'll see people explain that time isn't linear and the future (or many different futures) are actually happening now in the present.
I think other people have already explained that very near the beginning of this thread.

 

[Nikita_]

The fact that there are many futures.
If you get into quantum physics you'll see people explain that time isn't linear and the future (or many different futures) are actually happening now in the present.
I think other people have already explained that very near the beginning of this thread.

Yes, I know the theory, but I think it's a bit too early to say it's been " proven" (or backed by science) .

PS That IS, indeed simplistic...

 

[gregory]

The fact that there are many futures.
If you get into quantum physics you'll see people explain that time isn't linear and the future (or many different futures) are actually happening now in the present.
I think other people have already explained that very near the beginning of this thread.

If I didn't say this then, I will do now - I believe in an infinite number of timelines and that every single outcome actually happens and splits the thread of time so that both futures take place. I think that is something to do with quantum theory. And I certainly don't see it as simplistic - it is profoundly complex and quite scary.

hearing a tarot reader right then telling me that the end of that relationship was for the best, that someone better was waiting for me, and so on, was the most irritating, unbearable thing I had to listen to-much worse than someone saying "It's over, forget about him, you'll never see him again." That bluntness and harshness is a slap in the face, but it wakes you up. Any attempt at consoling me in that situation with the promise of something that may come in the future-maybe- to me sounds like a tasteless joke-and insulting. But that's just me....

Hearing something that is said as irritating and patronising doesn't mean it's wrong; maybe it was for the best. That that wasn't what you wanted to hear is a separate issue entirely. So yes - I'd say that is just you. Hope for the future - any future - is a valuable thing. It prevents us giving up.

 

[Sulis]

Yes, I know the theory, but I think it's a bit too early to say it's been " proven" (or backed by science) .

PS That IS, indeed simplistic...

Just because you (and I) don't really understand it, does not make it simplistic and yes, I think quantum mechanics is considered a science these days and is much more than a theory.

 

[Michael Sternbach]

I think it's important to contemplate, that to say that the future is not predestined does not imply that it is happening arbitrarily. Often, life-changing events depend on innocent looking small occurrences that only seem to be coincidental. By the same token, altering a variable may not always change the general outcome of a situation. Tarot can show us what a situation tends to develop to. The more imminent an event, the easier it is to predict. Manifestation happens gradually.

 

[ravenest]

I think all this confusion ( I dont mean you are all confused, most posts make good sense, I mean 'some' are 'all confused') is due to the issue of falling in to the first category of tarot usage.

The fortune teller. People want their fortune told how it 'will be' , the 'set in stone' view.

But now, we realise that is a future that can only be discerned in the 'future present' ; when we open the box. From the 'this present now' perspective, anything can happen in the future. Its nearly like a religious belief , the way some look at tarot, and when it doesnt fulfill, or is seen to be false, they appear cross, angry or ripped off. Sorry, the fault lied within themselves as they had the wrong view from the beginning.

The Magician. People realise the future is a bunch of threads leading to an event, as we go along threads branch off to other event possibilities that dont occur, the threads vanish, disappear, go into another dimension, whatever. As we get closer to the event, or as Michael said, 'more immanent ', fewer potential outcomes seem possible, but still, they can swerve and bend at that last minute. This type of reading is how best to manipulate events so they turn out the way you want.

IMO this is a case of someone coming from position 1 and still being jacked off about it. In essence, it is like someone buying a lucky charm bracelet, the next day they have an accident so they take the bracelet back to the shop and want their money back.

In brief;

Belief - tarot predicts the future .

Occurrence - tarot didnt predict the future.

Reaction - upset at tarot.

Reality - Your belief was wrong.

55 pages later. ... It might be time to 'review the internal map' ?