Did Waite supervise more than four cards? [previously discussed but some posts moved]

[Rosanne]

Thank you Cerulean- I would for one would be very pleased with a specific thread. For people like me, who have not got access to Kaplans encyclopedia, would it be possible to place the Essay on the Thread? I have visited the sites on the web. Anything of P.C.S. would be appreciated. From Anybody?

 

[Rosanne]

Hi Lillie- I agree all the cards were painted by Pamela.It is said that Waite supervised her. My quest is to what degree was that supervision.(my feeling is not much supervision at all) Here is my reasoning. I paint and there is a marked difference in my work when left to my own devices and when supervised by a Art teacher; or when I try to paint a scene or idea from a book. If I am attempting to convey an idea belonging to someone else, my work takes on a different signature. Now there has been a suggestion that Death was taken from another Artwork and it shows as different from her other cards. That is where I am coming from. Does that make sense? ~Rosanne

 

[Fulgour]

Waite had his niche publishing occult tabloids for Rider & Son
and he mined the wealth of French books for his translations.
But you can't "translate" art and Waite saw an open window
of opportunity with an original Tarot being created so handily,
though we've all seen: 78 card descriptions barely fills a book.

What other books was he sending to the printer at this time?
It takes a lot of material to keep the penny-dreadfuls coming.

 

[Cerulean]

The essays are way too long to type, but the cards can be listed

I'm hoping that other people with Stuart Kaplan's encyclopedia would be kind enough to look at the article and list the suggested designs in a separate thread.

Fulgour, did you see the lists of Waite's works? Here's about 35 that Amazon/Kessenger will print on demand:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/s...=xs_ap_l_xgl14/104-0840366-2673504/aeclectic/

I'm already working on the other PCS thread and links (her biography and artworks online, etc., with resources listed). In a few weeks, if no one has time to look at the Stuart Kaplan bio of PCS, I'll start another thread and link from here.

Thanks

Mari

 

[Emily]

I don't think we are ever going to find out just how closely supervised Pixie Smith was but I get the feeling that the artwork is very much her own.

I remember snippets of Vincent's posting in the original thread about a letter? that was written by Waite in which he mentions Pixie Smith - in this letter he describes her as a 'Draughtswoman' who didn't really understand or want to understand what the Golden Dawn was about. It just didn't ring true. She was proud enough to put her signature on each card.

Also the Pictorial Key to the Tarot - even by todays standards its a very sketchy book - you'd have thought that Waite would have gone to alot more trouble describing his cards with more than just the few words he did.

 

[Lillie]

Thanks Rosanne.
That has helped me understand why people are so interested in this question.
You are so lucky to be an artist. I wish I had that talent.

I would also agree with Emily.
There is hardly anything useful in Waites book.
If he spent as much time on the cards as on the book then the answer is obviously 'hardly any'.

The one thing I like about this deck is the style of the art. And that is hers.

To be honest, and this is stupid confession time, I saw a picture of the magician when I was about 18. Ohh. I thought, what a beautiful man!
Now I am older I look at the card and think, ohh, what a beautiful boy!
Then I wonder if I am weird.

 

[jmd]

Moderating note:

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[HOLMES]

yeah .

i still feel sadden then waite work in his book at the time wasn't as detailed as say robin wood tarot book.
but perhaps it was, and not just getting it due to the veil he put around the words.

is it a case of just a sign of the times? the grammar today is decidely lesser quality then that of the age in which waite wrote. (i guess i have to get a dictionary and sit there one day and force myself to through his book)

does the few wordy inteprations of the waite book make the case that he didnt' supervise in depth, or more of the cards.
I cant' say, i still find myself saying the rider waite instead of the smith-waite deck.

they are now on equal terms as it is called the smith-waite deck. and soon i hope thoth tarot get called crowley harris tarot.

 

[Fulgour]

Credibility?

reference: The Pictorial Key to the Tarot 1910 by A.E.Waite

Three Very Different Summaries of the Major Arcana

Pages 12 to 31
(19 pages of unillustrated text)
Waite's first set of descriptive meanings.
Note: The Fool is placed in position 21. The World at 22.

Pages 72 to 159
(87 pages but only 43 pages of text: 22 one-sided picture pages)
Waite's second set of descriptive meanings, differs from first set.
Note: The Fool is placed in position 21. The World at 22.

Pages 283 to 287
(4 pages of unillustrated text)
Waite's third set of descriptive meanings, differs from both others.
Note: The Fool is placed in position 21. The World at 22.

At what point can we take anything written by A.E.Waite as definitive?

 

[Fulgour]

No Floaters

I saw to it therefore that Pamela Colman Smith should not be picking up casually any floating images from my own or another mind. She had to be spoon-fed carefully over the Priestess Card, over that which is called the Fool and over the Hanged Man. (Shadows of Life and Thought, 1938)

29 years after Smith published her Tarot, in one of his last
collections of ramblings, Waite tried to give the impression
that he was among the secret elite who knew the ultimate
truth about the hidden meaning of the cards by suggesting
they blocked the mystical truth from their minds in order to
keep this from her, lest she unknowingly reveal any details.