Do most tarot users/readers believe in astrology, numerology etc?

[Ayram]

I don't know how I feel about astrology. Same with numerology. I'm one of those skeptics I guess which is pretty funny considering I "believe" in tarot readings. Am I the only one? It's fine if so, of course, but just curious if those things are a really big part of tarot. I use tarot cards for several reasons but bottom line is they seem to get positive, helpful, accurate results regardless of my belief or lack thereof (or lack of understanding possibly) in these other things. The cards also help me focus on things I'd otherwise be too busy to think about - so they're a meditative tool. But anyway I'm probably preaching to the choir about the many benefits!

 

[Grizabella]

I had a short astrological reading done for me by a young woman in Portugal several years ago and it totally made a believer out of me. The girl even mentioned that I had beautiful handwriting! She'd never seen my handwriting but all my life I've had people exclaim over how beautiful my handwriting is. It was absolutely astonishing what she found for me and I didn't know her except from a little chatting on here once or twice that didn't involve me telling stuff about myself.

So the answer would be yes, I do believe in astrology but I don't know any of how to read it or use it myself. I don't know about numerology.

 

[Zephyros]

Depends what you mean by "believe." Belief isn't necessary in this case, as in terms of Tarot these things are used mainly as a method of categorizing symbolism. The Trumps are ordered according to the Zodiac and classical planets, and all the rest of the cards' attributions are based on them. In this way, the people who created Tarot in its present configuration sought to create a true system that would work, kind of like a purring machine.

In the same way, most modern decks are built on the structure of the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, about which, again, belief is unnecessary since it is merely a model upon which ideas can be superimposed.

What the attributions can be used for is determining the "energy" of the card, the abstract idea which the card reflects. For example, Mars is attributed to the Tower, but that has little to do with proper astrology per se. Mars in this case implies a disruptive force, upheaval and destruction. In the case of the Minors, it's the same thing, but in this case we see how the attributions of the Trumps interact. The title of the Five of Wands is the Lord of Strife. This is not arbitrary but is because of its placement at place number five on the Tree of Life (attributed to Mars, discussed earlier) as well as its own attribution of Leo in Saturn. Leo is a fire sign, expansive, creative, ruling while Saturn is attributed to the ideas of cold, death and structure. In this configuration, Strife is inevitable.

So, while I don't believe in either of these things in the classical sense, they still are the vocabulary upon which Tarot is built. You can speak the language without any need for belief.

 

[earthair]

Hi
I don't 'believe' in astrology, or various other systems/symbols which appear on tarot cards. However, I've recently taken the plunge and started seriously studying how these systems work, so I at least understand why they are there and how they can add meaning and another layer to a reading. I think I would take astrology a bit more seriously if it was up to date with modern astronomy, but it's still a very thoughtful, elegant system which seems to almost fit in to tarot numbering. It does feel a bit forced numerically to me...
For instance, 360deg divided by 78(deck), or 22(majors) or 16(courts) doesn't really work, only 360 divided by minors with or without Aces does, which means for centuries people have been trying to fit a square peg into a round hole mathematically for all the really important cards!

 

[MissNine]

You use this and that...and decide what works for you. I use numbers when there's more of a certain number minor in a spread. Really just trial and error until you find your go-to methods.

 

[Zephyros]

For instance, 360deg divided by 78(deck), or 22(majors) or 16(courts) doesn't really work, only 360 divided by minors with or without Aces does, which means for centuries people have been trying to fit a square peg into a round hole mathematically for all the really important cards!

It doesn't really mean that, that isn't how the system works.

 

[Barleywine]

I was deeply involved in astrology before I discovered tarot, so the marriage of the two in the Golden Dawn system was a natural for me. But tarot doesn't "need" astrology (or any other "-ology") to explain it. It's iconography may have apparent connections (Sun and Moon, for example) but I think the integration of the two concepts is often misunderstood and misapplied. Symbolic astrological associations - which have nothing to do with horoscopic specifics - just open up new vistas for fruitful exploration. The same can be said for numerology, elemental correspondences, color symbolism, Tree of Life attributions, etc. I use them all when they add depth and breadth to my readings, and I also still study and use them independently in other areas. Used judiciously, they encourage a multi-layered perspective which broadens and also hones your interpretive faculties.

 

[earthair]

It doesn't really mean that, that isn't how the system works.

Please explain...

[And yes, we have gone off at a tangent...so I'll start another thread...]

 

[Zephyros]

But tarot doesn't "need" astrology (or any other "-ology") to explain it. It's iconography may have apparent connections (Sun and Moon, for example) but I think the integration of the two concepts is often misunderstood and misapplied.

I think that the move from "pure" gaming decks such as the Marseilles used for esoteric/divinatory purposes to constructed esoteric decks necessitates some kind of system, even if it isn't used by the public at large. The scenes and structure of the RWS may not be apparent, but without those disciplines it wouldn't exist. Those underlying threads are what gives it its cohesion. The connection between the aforementioned Tower and Five of Wands implies that one is similar to the other, hence actual "life-stuff" can be better analyzed.

Now, I'm speaking generally (since you know all this and we have discussed it in the past) but there is a popular opinion among Tarot readers that all these things were added later by busybodies to "pure" Tarot, which really isn't the case, and it wasn't the Golden Dawn that "mucked up" Tarot and confused it, either. This was done long before it, by hundreds of years. "

 

[Lerena]

I don't believe in numerology and I see limitations with astrology, but I do possess an interest in both numerology and astrology. These things are interesting in their own right and I like to use these systems.

As far as their application to tarot: I don't use astrology or numerology when I interpret the tarot. I believe that doing this would be a nice exercise that could offer interesting reasons I never get the Chariot or rarely get the Hierophant. Or maybe why the tarot seems to believe I'm a King instead of a Queen and why I'm often given the role of the Knight of Swords.

Overall, the tarot speaks to me without the need for astrology or numerology or even the knowledge of what certain things in the cards symbolize. It seems to have few limitations and it helps stimulate my mind in ways I never expected it would. Astrology and numerology don't really do that, though it's interesting to see what they get right about a person.