Fortune Telling vs. Spiritual Growth

[DamianStraton]

Hello everyone!

More an more I keep reading that fortune telling is a "bunch of BS" (not an exact quote, I´m paraphrasing to hide the identity of the reader). And that comes from professional tarot readers with several years of experience in the field. Instead, they prefer to use tarot as a tool for self development or spiritual guidance.

So, what are your thoughts?

I do have my personal opinion, which I will post later, but I don´t want to bias anyone.

 

[Holly doll]

Hello everyone!

More an more I keep reading that fortune telling is a "bunch of BS" (not an exact quote, I´m paraphrasing to hide the identity of the reader). And that comes from professional tarot readers with several years of experience in the field. Instead, they prefer to use tarot as a tool for self development or spiritual guidance.

So, what are your thoughts?

I do have my personal opinion, which I will post later, but I don´t want to bias anyone.

Why does it need to be mutually exclusive? My wonderful clients help to pay my bills - in return they get an insight into patterns, behaviours or archetypes keeping them stuck. I use the cards as well for my personal development & for spiritual growth as well.

In my pov- it's not "fortunetelling" when you can see something negative unfolding in the cards for a client such as 8/Wands, Chariot, Tower, & tell them if they don't change their driving habits - speeding - there is potential for them to come to a sudden & forceful stop - accident.

When I get cross is when I'm approached for "lucky numbers", the soulmate question (Hallmark & bodice rippers have much to answer for) <thunderous face>, or when someone asks when the husband will leave his wife for the mistress... - that to me is fortunetelling...

I try to bring a little self-development & spiritual guidance into those readings as many of them can be fear or lack based...

 

[Apollonia]

Although in my practice I do both, I think it takes more guts to be a fortune teller than a spiritual guide. Because "self development and spiritual guidance" are so vague, those clients are very unlikely to come back and tell me I was wrong. Every suggestion could be seen as equally valid and adding to the client's development in some way, so there's no skin in the game.

But when I do fortune telling, I'm laying my skills on the line for them to judge my accuracy and the worth of my readings.

As for it being a bunch of BS, it always strikes me as a little odd when someone uses an old tool to do something fairly new and then scoffs at the traditional use. Can't we all just get along? Putting others down doesn't raise you up.

 

[ravenest]

It depends on what one means by divination * ... in my book it is not to find out 'if that guy at work likes me' (as an example).

I use it as a tool for spiritual growth and direction.

Masonry tools are traditionally used to cut, shape and fit stone ... yet, in Freemasonry they serve as excellent objects to meditate on and develop ethical behaviour from as their 'meaning' and application can be equated to the psyche.

What is the 'traditional' usage of a sword or a cup? In tarot they can mean a lot more, as we know. Spiritual teaching often uses things with a different, everyday or traditional usage to try to help explain via metaphor and analogy. It seems silly to criticise the original usage ... unless it is something as obscure as divination (as there is always the possibility that any fault lies in the operator and not the system).


* Divination (from Latin divinare "to foresee, to be inspired by a god")

 

[DamianStraton]

Thank you everyone!

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses. I hope you don´t mind I am replying to everyone in the same post.

Looks like there is some confusion regarding what fortune telling is, so I will post a definition from Wikipedia: “Fortune-telling is the practice of predicting information about a person's life.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune-telling)

Now the individual responses.

Why does it need to be mutually exclusive?

Not at all. Someone is trying to “legitimize” their practice by putting fortune telling down.

In my pov- it's not "fortunetelling" when you can see something negative unfolding in the cards for a client such as 8/Wands, Chariot, Tower, & tell them if they don't?

Sure it is. You are using supernatural means to make predictions. But, as a client, if you tell me it is not I have to accept that at face value.

As for it being a bunch of BS, it always strikes me as a little odd when someone uses an old tool to do something fairly new and then scoffs at the traditional use. Can't we all just get along? Putting others down doesn't raise you up.

Exactly!

But when I do fortune telling, I'm laying my skills on the line for them to judge my accuracy and the worth of my readings.

Of course.

It depends on what one means by divination * ... in my book it is not to find out 'if that guy at work likes me' (as an example).

Actually, I said “fortune telling”, not "divination". “The scope of fortune-telling is in principle identical with the practice of divination. The difference is that divination is the term used for predictions considered part of a religious ritual, invoking deities…” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune-telling)

So, if you are invoking a deity it is divination. If you are not invoking a deity it is still fortune telling as you are using supernatural means to make predictions. Of course, if you tell the client it is not fortune telling, then they have to accept that it isn´t.

My Take: Tarot works both for counseling and fortune telling. I´m just surprised that so many people seem to take pride in not being a fortune teller given that it is the traditional use of the cards.

Thank you everyone, again!

 

[dancing_moon]

For me, the difference between fortune-telling and using Tarot as a means of growth/personal transformation is really the difference between 'what will happen to me' vs 'what can I do to make positive changes' kinds of questions/attitudes. In this sense, I don't like the idea of fortune-telling. The future holds exactly what I'm putting into it right now, so I want to read the cards to make my *present* moment better, so that the future would change accordingly. I can do fortune-telling for others as a way of practice, but I don't think I'll ever do it for money.

 

[GryffinSong]

For me, the difference between fortune-telling and using Tarot as a means of growth/personal transformation is really the difference between 'what will happen to me' vs 'what can I do to make positive changes' kinds of questions/attitudes. In this sense, I don't like the idea of fortune-telling. The future holds exactly what I'm putting into it right now, so I want to read the cards to make my *present* moment better ...

I agree with this. "What will happen to me?" asked the way many folks ask it, is a passive question. I prefer to ask what I can do to improve life.

And while I can respect each person's viewpoint, I don't believe in gods or the supernatural. The cards, in my opinion, depict universal archetypes and activities and feelings and such, which we can use to trigger intuitive insights. Regardless of their history, archetypal concepts don't change much, if at all, over time, which is why they remain relevant.

 

[DownUnderNZer]

I think I tend to mix it a bit although I wouldn't say I give spiritual advise because I don't.

If something comes up that needs to be "nipped in the bud" I say what I see and allow a person to explore it in her/his own way. I will say things upfront, but with diplomacy. And I give to her/him what comes to me and nothing more than that even though for me it can be frustrating as sometimes what is given I'm not sure how to explain. And....it isn't for me to explain. Hard lesson!

I was told never to explain "symbols" or "images" as it usually is something the sitter can do her/himself.

Cards are not a problem at all...it's the other stuff.

Fortune telling?

I have never labelled myself as that and won't. I always say to sitters that the future is never set, and it isn't, and when I get feedback it is then that I find out what has happened or what hasn't yet on the most part - it happens.

But I am not a fortune teller - I give what I get and nothing more than that.

 

[DamianStraton]

Subtle difference or subtle interpretation?

The future holds exactly what I'm putting into it right now, so I want to read the cards to make my *present* moment better, so that the future would change accordingly. I can do fortune-telling for others as a way of practice, but I don't think I'll ever do it for money.

Ok, so you are saying that you rather empower your clients to change the future than telling them what the future will be.

For me, the difference between fortune-telling and using Tarot as a means of growth/personal transformation is really the difference between 'what will happen to me' vs 'what can I do to make positive changes' kinds of questions/attitudes.

So instead of telling your clients "what will happen" you tell them what "positive changes" they can make, so it is no longer fortune telling.

I say it still is fortune telling. You are not predicting the future outright, but you are identifying forces that will have an effect in the future by occult means. When you see forces that are less than desirable, you prescribe changes. The key factor is that those forces that have an effect on what the future will hold are predicted by supernatural methods, i.e., without scientific evidence that the method actually works and that makes it fortune telling.

In fact, the state of New York includes "use of occult powers, to answer questions or give advice on personal matters" in their definition of fortune telling. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune-telling)

Like it or not, using Tarot cards to give advice qualifies as fortune telling. And I have NO PROBLEM with that (good thing I don´t live in New York), but fortune tellers who pretend to be something else do. And that is their problem, not mine.

 

[Zephyros]

I agree with this. "What will happen to me?" asked the way many folks ask it, is a passive question. I prefer to ask what I can do to improve life.

I do, too. To me fortune-telling almost deifies Tarot and makes it something great and all-knowing, the unbreachable word of God coming down to us. Whether that's true or not, it is far more responsibility than I want. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, my readings can only come from the point of view of influences today affecting tomorrow. A person's free will is the most important thing, and I am there to help it, never hinder it.