Geometric Shapes on Sword Minors.

[ravenest]

Crowley could have given these sigils to Harris and asked her to incorporate artistic, stylised versions of the sigils in her renditions of the cards.

F; "But you were supposed to help with the sword suit backgrounds today, you cant just run off!"

A; Stuffs the sheets in Frieda's hand, "Just use these, change them how you want, you know, artistic license and all that, I'm sure you'll do a wonderfull job." He rushes towards the door.

{My note book sums up the latest with ; "Whatever she did I feel it was a mixture of traditional techniques for drawing geometries to represent spirits/angels/demons combined with her own twist and artistic license."}

 

[Lillie]

We could possibly nut this out given a bit more time.

I've done my bit finding the reference.
The rest is up to you.

 

[ravenest]

I'm guessing that Crowley constructed the correct sigils of the angel names using the appropriate planetary Kameas of the minor cards in question. In the case of the 3 of Swords he would have used the Kamea of Saturn.

Yeah, I thought that right back at the begining but the Kamea of Saturn has only 9 positions to plot the line points on and the diagram in the three appears to be at least 15. I tried but couldnt get it to work. But I wasnt using the values for the angels names, that's the next stage. - tonight.

Crowley could have given these sigils to Harris and asked her to incorporate artistic, stylised versions of the sigils in her renditions of the cards.

And perhaps some of those tricks are superimposing with the reverse of the image? Only trial and error will tell.

Stay tuned to this chanel for the next exciting episode.

If you dont hear from me for a while, I will be able to be reached at;
Ravenest c/o The Australian Asylum for Wigged-out Mathmagicians.

 

[Lillie]

Tut.

You're not really doing it.

You're obviously copying the possum.
She's doing all the work.

Genius that possum.

 

[ravenest]

I've done my bit finding the reference.
The rest is up to you.

Yep, you sure did, I'd still be chasing matmatical formulas if it weren't for you dear Froggy. The 'we' in my post relates to the credit given when it finally is worked out.

 

[Lillie]

What edition of the deck do you have?
Do you have that LWB? (It's an interesting one)

Because if you do you will see that Harris gets quite a lot of stuff wrong.
So, it's possible that she just writ what she did because that's what she thought from some vague discription of C. And it might not be exactly true.

It's odd that it's not mentioned anywhere else.

Like who would go to all that work and not mention it?

 

[ravenest]

What edition of the deck do you have?
Do you have that LWB? (It's an interesting one)

I dont know. I'm not a collector. I just have the one Thoth that has survived from ancient times. My LWB is a collection of frayed sheets, some missing, in the side of my Thoth bag. I certainly dont remember those references in it although. I will check whats in it and get back to you on it. I am interested in what is in these other LWB's (I thought they were all the same.

my deck came in a white box, had an OTO card and a black card with red hexagram on it, Oh , a blank card too I think (but let's not go there ). One Magus.

 

[ravenest]

In the case of the 3 of Swords he would have used the Kamea of Saturn.

Perhaps, if we assume he was using the Kamea relating to the number and the Planet attributed to that number.
But how did the pattern on the 2 of swords get drawn on the kamea of ... ?
There is no magic square for 2, 3 geing the lowest possible number for a magic square.

And also what Planetary Karmea would be used (ie. what number magic square) for the 10, what planet attributes to 10?

Karmeas are planetary Kameas and used to invoke planetary energies and AC could have just as well used the Kamea of the Planet attributed directly to the card in question (regardless of what number card it was.)

 

[ravenest]

I tried the Cabalah of 9 Chambers (C9C) on the Planetary Kameas, it doesnt work, shapes are too simple (even using my previous ideas about superimposing opposites), often straight lines as the C9C only gives 9 possible values. Straight letter values from Hebrew usually give 3-5 more.

I tried using English letters and using their number of order in the alphabet and the results looked more complex ... but no cigar.

None of these names seem to generate a lot of points on any type of grid to work with, once or twice I got some typical shapes, familiar with Friedas and previous experiments I had done linking mathmatical formulas in magic squares, but that isnt enough to make me feel I'm on to it.

Maybe the suit being swords, she didnt use the Shemhamphorash Angels but another level of 'being' associated with the Kameas known as the 'Intellegence' of the Planet eg, The intellegence of the Moon plotted on to the grid of the Kamea of Luna (magic square of 9) gives many reference points to map out: MALCAH BETARSHISIM VE-AD RUACHOTH HA-SCHECHALIM on a grid of 81 points.

But there are still problems; C9C only gives 9 possible points and using the traditional values we dont have enough points for any letter with a value above 80. So it has to be juggled some way. Which, no doubt, is what Frieda did a lot of.

The sigil of the Intellegence of Luna (as the GD version) doesnt look much like Friedas shapes on the cards, but the GD version is a tweak (or artistic license) to get around the problem of repeated letters making the line return again and again to the same point. Frieda used a more artistic method. But this system ceratinly gives many more points and shapes to be creative with and it seems to me that the intellegence of the planet would be more symbolic in the sword suits then the angels. perhaps the mistake was (whover the quote came from) that he should have said Intellegences instead of Guardian Angels, and we assumed Shemhamphorash because of the angel similarity. In the GD book there are no Shemhamphorash angels sigils on the Planetary kameas but there are 'Intellegences.

In any case (and to finaly shut up about this, to your relief) I do have an answer to my original question of what are the geometric designs in the sword suit backgrounds.

They are crystal geometric shapes symbolising the element air, drawn by gematricising on a grid Shemhamphorash Angelic entities and/or Planetary Intellegences that are attributed to each card.

Thanks guys!

 

[Lillie]

I dont know. I'm not a collector. I just have the one Thoth that has survived from ancient times. My LWB is a collection of frayed sheets, some missing, in the side of my Thoth bag. I certainly dont remember those references in it although. I will check whats in it and get back to you on it. I am interested in what is in these other LWB's (I thought they were all the same.

my deck came in a white box, had an OTO card and a black card with red hexagram on it, Oh , a blank card too I think (but let's not go there ). One Magus.

Then that is the famous USG 'greenie' deck. Though not all of them were the true cabbage.
That should be the Wasserman LWB, and it has the Harris stuff at the end.

If it was complete you would find that the whole LWB goes through the entire deck three times.
Look for the 4 Swords in the last run through.

If you have not got the whole thing, and you would like to read it, I can get mine photo copied for you.

It's my favourite version of this deck, and it's the only one I have ever had, (apart from the really vintage ones which don't have LWB's) So I don't know what the other LWB's have in them either.
But I have always found this one very informative for the Harris stuff.