tieduptinkerbell
seperate the issues
decided i don't want to comment on this thread....
decided i don't want to comment on this thread....
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have realised the error of my ethics.
firemaiden
Assuming Abigail is only making a point, and does not in reality intend to "open a can of psychic whoopass" - I can see where she is coming from. If a person is indeed so psychic as to be able to name names, including that of the family dog - such a person will have a real need to be very careful to avoid misusing information which might come to them.
I think most of us, I speak for myself, do not find ourselves in such a position. I can stare at the cards until the cows come home, I am not going to learn the name of your family dog, and I will have no idea who or what is on your menu. Even if I give myself permission to ask and look.
Abigail's point is well taken, that if a psychic does not abide by some rather stringent ethical considerations - not to pry, and not to misuse information - well then, some terrible mischief could be created.
The difficulty for me in imposing one "no prying on others" rule to all readers, comes in the fact that we are all connected-- If I ask for advice on how to handle my upcoming job interview, automatically we are involving an interviewer, a firm, a receptionist, and elevator operator, maybe a bus or subway train driver, and dozens of other job applicants... no we do not need to know who each one of these characters is screwing and what they had for breakfast, but if you tell me about my life, won't you also be also telling me about the lives of all those whom I affect? I mean, no one lives in isolation. As it was said in the great film "Mon oncle d'Amerique" (Alain Resnais) "nous ne sommes que les autres" - we are nothing but other people.
And of course if we ask questions about love, oh my ... how can we not involve others?
I think most of us, I speak for myself, do not find ourselves in such a position. I can stare at the cards until the cows come home, I am not going to learn the name of your family dog, and I will have no idea who or what is on your menu. Even if I give myself permission to ask and look.
Abigail's point is well taken, that if a psychic does not abide by some rather stringent ethical considerations - not to pry, and not to misuse information - well then, some terrible mischief could be created.
The difficulty for me in imposing one "no prying on others" rule to all readers, comes in the fact that we are all connected-- If I ask for advice on how to handle my upcoming job interview, automatically we are involving an interviewer, a firm, a receptionist, and elevator operator, maybe a bus or subway train driver, and dozens of other job applicants... no we do not need to know who each one of these characters is screwing and what they had for breakfast, but if you tell me about my life, won't you also be also telling me about the lives of all those whom I affect? I mean, no one lives in isolation. As it was said in the great film "Mon oncle d'Amerique" (Alain Resnais) "nous ne sommes que les autres" - we are nothing but other people.
And of course if we ask questions about love, oh my ... how can we not involve others?
Moonbow
I understand ethics to mean the individual's moral judgement and values. I personally don't relate this just to Tarot but to my everyday dealings with other people and they way I live.
Accusing others of prying and being nosey because they don't share the same ethics is not ethical in itself... in my book. Just as publicly alarming people, whether as a 'joke' or not is also not ethical to me.
As to the question of ethics, I believe this is where the individual has to look to their own morals and not to dictate to others, but I don't feel that this is why this thread was started. It seems to have been started to make a point by using shock tactics to worry or hurt others.
Accusing others of prying and being nosey because they don't share the same ethics is not ethical in itself... in my book. Just as publicly alarming people, whether as a 'joke' or not is also not ethical to me.
As to the question of ethics, I believe this is where the individual has to look to their own morals and not to dictate to others, but I don't feel that this is why this thread was started. It seems to have been started to make a point by using shock tactics to worry or hurt others.
firemaiden
tieduptinkerbell said:Did you see it all? Or just the bad parts...what about...the rest?
Did you see that I sing professionally and write music and teach music to kidergarten classes, and paint and write childrens books, and that I love to cook...actually just gave up the idea of becoming a Chef, cause although I am not disabled anymore, the surgery on my back took its toll. Did you see me lifting 50 lbs the other day when they said I might not walk without a limp for the rest of my life. Did you see it when I learned how to walk again...or when I lost 135 lbs and do you see how I long to ride a bike and ice skate again and that my goal is to run a marathon by 45. Did you Did you see that I have friends that love me and people that think I am a good person...
Wow!! powerful stuff Tied-up Tink!!!
Moongold
Moonbow* said:Accusing others of prying and being nosey because they don't share the same ethics is not ethical in itself... in my book. Just as publicly alarming people, whether as a 'joke' or not is also not ethical to me.
As to the question of ethics, I believe this is where the individual has to look to their own morals and not to dictate to others, but I don't feel that this is why this thread was started. It seems to have been started to make a point by using shock tactics to worry or hurt others.
Satire is an often used and legitimate literary or debating device.
It would be a pity to see Abigail's motivation as deliberately wanting to hurt others or as unethical.
I don't see it that way at all.
Moongold
Moongold
Lastly ( I am about to go on my early morning walk), I can't remember Abigail saying that she does not see or receive material about others.
I think I remember her saying that she does not ask for it. There is a difference there.
This seems to me to have been missed in all these discussions.
I am like Firemaiden in that I don't get blinding revelations about others. I do get feelings that come both from the cards and "something" that happens in the reading process. I have to be very careful with this material, however, because one can never be entirely sure. I don't ask specifically for this material.
I just took from Abigail's thoughts that she would not ask for information about others if she was not authorized by them to do so.
Moongold
I think I remember her saying that she does not ask for it. There is a difference there.
This seems to me to have been missed in all these discussions.
I am like Firemaiden in that I don't get blinding revelations about others. I do get feelings that come both from the cards and "something" that happens in the reading process. I have to be very careful with this material, however, because one can never be entirely sure. I don't ask specifically for this material.
I just took from Abigail's thoughts that she would not ask for information about others if she was not authorized by them to do so.
Moongold
gregory
I did feel in the earlier thread that several people were saying that it was OK to read for others without their knowledge, which IS the same as without their consent. Some may think this OK; Abigail doesn't. In the earlier thread I felt there was open hostility to her views, which to me came over as quite unpleasant. Discussion and an EXCHANGE of views is not the same thing as rubbishing someone's position.
This has come up in other threads; I was leapt upon for adopting the same position as Abigail's somewhere - though rather more amiably, probably because I was known at the time as a non-reader. Everyone is saying we should respect each other's views. This is a powerful thread because of the way it was started (which I am SURE was a spoof) but so far, IMHO, there hasn't been much respect for the views of those who DO feel it's wrong to read without consent.
This has come up in other threads; I was leapt upon for adopting the same position as Abigail's somewhere - though rather more amiably, probably because I was known at the time as a non-reader. Everyone is saying we should respect each other's views. This is a powerful thread because of the way it was started (which I am SURE was a spoof) but so far, IMHO, there hasn't been much respect for the views of those who DO feel it's wrong to read without consent.
She didn't actually. She did say she absolutely abides by them, and that she strongly believes in them. We all believe in our own ethics or what's the point of them ?Major Tom said:Actually Aoife, it's exactly the opposite. Abigail is telling us we must abide by her ethics.
levannah60
I have to say that it is a personal matter. If you really don't feel comfortable with reading without someone's permission, don't do it! It's entirly up to you.
MercyMe
gregory, I think the perceived hostility Abigail received in the other thread was more due to her saying that she would no longer be visiting the forum since others here didn't share her ethical views. That statement moreso than her differing views caused a bit of a stir.
Certainly her choice to stay or go is hers and hers alone, but that was what stirred the pot, methinks.
And I agree with Firemaiden that most of us here who read tarot are not usually able to name the family dog, so we don't have the ethical concerns that somone who has that ability might have.
And I agree with tink, as for me -- bring it on.
Abigail said:Reading your comment saddened me and reminded me why I work alone and have previously avoided groups such as this. But I thank you for the comment it gave me the push I needed to remove myself from the forum.
Certainly her choice to stay or go is hers and hers alone, but that was what stirred the pot, methinks.
And I agree with Firemaiden that most of us here who read tarot are not usually able to name the family dog, so we don't have the ethical concerns that somone who has that ability might have.
And I agree with tink, as for me -- bring it on.
Dean
U.k
I don't have a problem with someone telling me that i should not use the Tarot to gain secrets on other people, but i do if someone get's so up tight about how you should be using the Tarot.
The Tarot is there for a purpose' and this being a Divination tool for finding answers or analazing lifes difficult Decisions or Problems. As i said when this thread was first started i have only ever come across people who might want extra information on someone else, and this as been out of the respect of someone who had deeply cared or was very worried about a persons well being.
I don't have a problem with someone telling me that i should not use the Tarot to gain secrets on other people, but i do if someone get's so up tight about how you should be using the Tarot.
The Tarot is there for a purpose' and this being a Divination tool for finding answers or analazing lifes difficult Decisions or Problems. As i said when this thread was first started i have only ever come across people who might want extra information on someone else, and this as been out of the respect of someone who had deeply cared or was very worried about a persons well being.
