Hebrew Alphabet & Tarot

Do you believe Tarot was originally based on the Hebrew alphabet?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 5.7%
  • No

    Votes: 68 77.3%
  • It seems likely, even if unproven

    Votes: 4 4.5%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 11 12.5%

  • Total voters
    88

kwaw

I'd say No#2 - but with the proviso I don't believe to long before that, just that it seems reasonable that such an association was discussed in Gebelin/Mellet circles before the actual publication of Monde Primitif - so sometime c. last quarter of the 18th century. If the distinction you are making is between those that believe there was some longer secret tradition prior to 1781 (of the Christine Payne-Towler school for example) - then I'd have to go with No#1.
 

Ross G Caldwell

In this case, people who's research I trust say something and I more or less accept it as true. I say more or less, because as Huck's example showed, even the people who's business it is to ascertain the truth do not always agree.

That's true, but mostly it is because our field is so small, and the issues are so small, that problems appear magnified. It is never personal, however heated the discussion (I don't believe it is, although we are all hurt from time to time; it's superficial, and we know it).

It's like a game where we don't know how many squares are on the board, although we have a good idea, and we don't know exactly how many pieces are on the board, but we have a good idea, but, most importantly, we can't agree on the rules of the game - how to move the pieces, the methodology. There is also no way to know if you have won, since this game - history - relies on accidents and there is no certain end, at least not yet. Nobody knows when, or even if, the game will end (that would presumably be something like the discovery of the designer's notes on the game - that no doubt futile hope would settle a lot of our debates). A better analogy might be a puzzle, where we have most of the edges placed, and a lot of the middle done, but there is no complete agreement on large sections, because many of the pieces are missing.

But we keep playing, perhaps because of some aesthetic compulsion, it just attracts us (for my part, I want to know the truth, or as close as possible) - and nobody else understands us anyway. So like each other or hate each other - in the context of the game of course - we play with who comes. There isn't any other choice, in such a small field with no institutional or external backing, and certainly no institutional reward (credentials, de jure expertise - you just have to earn your reputation here, become a de facto expert).
 

Ross G Caldwell

I'd say No#2 - but with the proviso I don't believe to long before that, just that it seems reasonable that such an association was discussed in Gebelin/Mellet circles before the actual publication of Monde Primitif - so sometime c. last quarter of the 18th century. If the distinction you are making is between those that believe there was some longer secret tradition prior to 1781 (of the Christine Payne-Towler school for example) - then I'd have to go with No#1.

Well, you read that one right.

I'd take that No as sufficiently historically qualified (as opposed to some other quality or basis for judgment, I mean; I'm trying to qualify the poll results through the form of the responses - by "qualify" or "qualified" I don't mean "competent" (although it can, as in Steve's case (whew! it's hard to keep having to explain)), for anybody who might be unclear on this) to count as an accurate choice of response, but you might be right about the phrasing of the response.

Perhaps, taking The crowned one's concerns into account as well, the phrase could be "around 1781" or "very shortly before 1781" (since "around" could imply "later" as well, which is wrong).

Hmmm... have to think about it. Thanks!
 

gregory

Perhaps, taking The crowned one's concerns into account as well, the phrase could be "around 1781" or "very shortly before 1781" (since "around" could imply "later" as well, which is wrong).
But I might choose to believe (!) that it was later. Who are you to say definitively that I am wrong ?

I'd want to be able to say "probably not but I am by no means certain." :D I am not 100% certain of anything when it comes to the occult. Seriously.
 

Zephyros

Is it really an occult question?
 

Richard

I don't know. Is it ? Is tarot not occult ? Are these meanings not an occult thing ?
Apparently, the conscious intent of the designers was to create a game deck, but somehow it acquired a significance beyond the mundane.
 

Zephyros

I agree. Were it an occult question my answer would change to an emphatic affirmative. By the natural patterns of the universe, or whether it was ordained by a higher power, or any reason, the occult (or maybe not "the" by "my") would say that it is natural that it would be thus.
 

gregory

Apparently, the conscious intent of the designers was to create a game deck, but somehow it acquired a significance beyond the mundane.

In that case where does the very IDEA that the deck is tied to ANYTHING come from ? Why do we even need to ask these questions - it isn't important - it's just a game.