le pendu
I posted this in the thread on Tower, but thought I would start a new thread on it as I would really like feedback/insights/leads on it. Does the name "La Maison Dieu" refer to the circles in the sky found on the TdM and the Vieville? Is this card describing meteorites?
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Fundamentally, it's a connection between the words Bethel and Baetyl.
Definition of "Bethel" from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethel_(god)
and
So "Bethel" means "House of God" in Hebrew, seemingly translated as "Baetyl" and "Baitylos" or "Baitylus" or "Baitylia" or "Bætulia", and all indicate a type of magical stone.
From a page on the word Baetyl:
http://www.livius.org/ba-bd/baetyl/baetyl.html
We're beginning to see a pattern here of stone(s) that are worshiped, containing the essence of God. Now another connection:
First line of definition for "Baetylus" on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baetylus
From Wikipedia for "Meteorite"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite
From a site about meteorites:
http://www.haberer-meteorite.de/english/Culture and religion.htm
From the Theosophical Society's page:
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/etgloss/ba-be.htm
Quote from a odd website here:
http://www.quantavolution.org/vol_09/gods_fire_03.htm
If this is true, then we can bring "Thunderbolt" into the discussion as well.
From a site about prehistoric meteorites:
http://www.jjkent.com/articles/China-prehistoric-meteorites.htm
A little more about Sanchuniathon of Berytus mentioned in my first Wikipedia quote above on "Bethel", from this website:
http://phoenicia.org/theomythology.html
So I'm not sure what to make of all of this.. if anything.
Let's look at XVI from the Jacques Vieville and Jean Dodal tarots:
Is it possible that the name "La Maison Dieu" is a literal translation of "Bethel"?
If so, what is the Bethel being depicted? Is it perhaps a reference not to the actual tower itself, but a reference to meteorites?
And if meteorites, is it a reference to the large flaming object in the upper portion of the cards? Or is it to the circular objects along the side? Or Both?
And what of the "Animated Stones", are these just another name, or is there something extra-magical happening?
Is the image in the Vieville a picture of Jacob and his goats, and the Bethel shown as a way to signify Jacob?
And what of the tower? I can't find any connection between Bethel and a tower. So why show the tower at all?
Before starting this tread, I did a search to see if Bethel or Baetyl had been mentioned before.. I found this post earlier in the thread:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=21550
I'm not sure what Marcel Picard says, so if anyone has any information on that I would appreciate learning about it.
best,
robert
--
Fundamentally, it's a connection between the words Bethel and Baetyl.
Definition of "Bethel" from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethel_(god)
Bethel meaning in Hebrew and Phoenician and Aramaic 'House of El' or 'House of God' is seemingly the name of a god or an aspect of a god in some ancient middle-eastern texts dating to the Assyrian, Persian and Hellenistic periods.
and
Sanchuniathon mentions the god Baitylos as a brother of the gods El and Dagon. He later says that the god Sky devised the baitylia, having contrived to put life into stones. The reference would seem to be to Bethels in the plural, that is to many stones like the stone in the Israelite city of Bethel which served a housing for God in Israelite belief.
So "Bethel" means "House of God" in Hebrew, seemingly translated as "Baetyl" and "Baitylos" or "Baitylus" or "Baitylia" or "Bætulia", and all indicate a type of magical stone.
From a page on the word Baetyl:
http://www.livius.org/ba-bd/baetyl/baetyl.html
Baetyl (or Baitylos, Beth-El): a venerated stone, believed to be in some sense the "house of god".
All over the ancient Levant, we find the cultic practice of venerating stones that were believed to be the house of a particular god, a Beth-El.
We're beginning to see a pattern here of stone(s) that are worshiped, containing the essence of God. Now another connection:
First line of definition for "Baetylus" on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baetylus
Baetylus or Bethel is a semitic word denoting a sacred stone, which was supposed to be endowed with life. These fetish objects of worship were meteoric stones, which were dedicated to the gods or revered as symbols of the gods themselves (Pliny, Nat. Hist. xvii. 9; Photius, Cod. 242).
From Wikipedia for "Meteorite"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite
A meteorite is a small extraterrestrial body that impacts the Earth's surface. While in space these bodies are called meteoroids, and they are called meteors after entering Earth's atmosphere but before reaching the surface. These are small asteroids, approximately boulder-sized or less. When it enters the atmosphere, air drag and friction cause the body to heat up and emit light, thus forming a fireball or shooting star.
From a site about meteorites:
http://www.haberer-meteorite.de/english/Culture and religion.htm
Even in the monotheistic religions of judäo-christian tradition traces of the old meteorite cults can be found. In hebrew language, the stones fallen from the sky are called Bethel (hebr. "House of God"). In the old testament it is reported, how Jakob, the tribe father of the Israelites, had his vision of the sky ladder, when he had fallen asleep in the desert with his head placed on such a Bethel-stone. According to the story after this he erected a temple around the stone, of which today unfortunately no more traces can be found.
From the Theosophical Society's page:
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/etgloss/ba-be.htm
Betylos, Baetylus (Latin) [from Greek baitylos meteoric stone] Also betylus, baetyl, betyles. In Classical antiquity a stone, either natural or artificially shaped, venerated as of divine origin, or as a symbol of divinity. There were a number of these sacred stones in Greece, the most famous being the one on the omphalos at Delphi. Likewise there were the so-called animated or oracular stones. "Strabo, Pliny, Helancius [Hellanicus] -- all speak of the electrical, or electro-magnetic power of the betyli. They were worshipped in the remotest antiquity in Egypt and Samothrace, as magnetic stones, 'containing souls which had fallen from heaven'; and the priests of Cybele wore a small betylos on their bodies" (IU 1:332). In Persia they were called oitzoe; but their origin was of far greater antiquity, for "Lemuria, Atlantis and her giants, and the earliest races of the Fifth Root-Race had all a hand in these betyles, lithoi, and 'magic' stones in general" (SD 2:346n). See also OPHITES; ROCKING-STONES
Quote from a odd website here:
http://www.quantavolution.org/vol_09/gods_fire_03.htm
The Greek word for Bethel was Baetyli, meaning a Jovian thunderbolt. Baetyls are sacred thunderstones or meteorites carried by the holy litters or arks of various Bedouin tribes.
If this is true, then we can bring "Thunderbolt" into the discussion as well.
From a site about prehistoric meteorites:
http://www.jjkent.com/articles/China-prehistoric-meteorites.htm
In prehistoric times meteorites were quite naturally supposed to possess a special sanctity, and were indeed regarded as animated by the very essence of some divinity. The name baetylus, given to these stones by Greeks and Romans, is derived from the Hebrew (bethel) or "house of God," a term indicating clearly enough the belief held by the ancient Hebrews in regard to meteorites, or supposed meteorites. However, long before this designation had reached the Greeks, certain meteorites had been accorded a peculiar reverence, and even worship. One of these was a black stone, called the Omphalos of Delphi. This was said to be the stone given by Rhea to Kronos when she substituted a stone for her offspring Zeus, to save him from being devoured by his father, Kronos. Zeus himself (or Kronos) threw it down to the Earth and the spot where it struck was supposed to be the centre of the Earth, hence the name Omphalos, or "navel-stone."
A little more about Sanchuniathon of Berytus mentioned in my first Wikipedia quote above on "Bethel", from this website:
http://phoenicia.org/theomythology.html
Sanchuniathon of Berytus (Beirut) or Sakkun-yathon in Phoenician means "the god Sakkun has given." He was an ancient Phoenician sage, priest and writer. He lived before the Trojan times. Judging from the fragments of the Phoenician History, Sanchuniathon appears to have been a contemporary of Semiramis, the Queen of Assyria, the wife of Ninus, with whom she founded Nineveh 2,000 BC. However, some believe that Sanchuniathon was a contemporary of Gideon 1339 BC without any proof. His book goes back into fabled antiquity. Sanchuniathon, like Vgasa in India, is said to have been a compiler of extremely ancient theogonic and historical documents that had been transmitted to him either by oral tradition or in writing. Sanchuniathon derived the sacred lore from the mystic inscriptions on the nfjawtis (probably hammanim, "sun pillars,"1) which stood in Phoenician temples. Porphyry of Tyre says that Sanchuniathon wrote a history of the Jews, based on information derived from Hierombal (i.e. Jeruba'al), a priest of the god Jevo (i.e. Yahveh). He dedicated it to Abelbal or Abibal, king of Berytus. The story was thought to be fictional because of its reference to Berytus; however, excavation in Berytus in recent years prove that the city maybe older than Byblos that has cultural tradition to 8,000 BC. His Phoenician History may be regarded as one of the most authentic memorials of the events which took place before the Flood. It begins with a legendary cosmogony and relates to how the first two mortals were begotten by the Wind (Spirit) and his wife Baau (Darkness). It refers to the Fall, the production of fire, the invention of huts and clothing, the origin of the arts of agriculture, hunting, fishing and navigation, and the beginnings of human civilization. Sanchuniathon gives a curious account of the descendants of the line of Cain. His history of the descendants of the line of Seth reads like the record in Genesis.
So I'm not sure what to make of all of this.. if anything.
Let's look at XVI from the Jacques Vieville and Jean Dodal tarots:
Is it possible that the name "La Maison Dieu" is a literal translation of "Bethel"?
If so, what is the Bethel being depicted? Is it perhaps a reference not to the actual tower itself, but a reference to meteorites?
And if meteorites, is it a reference to the large flaming object in the upper portion of the cards? Or is it to the circular objects along the side? Or Both?
And what of the "Animated Stones", are these just another name, or is there something extra-magical happening?
Is the image in the Vieville a picture of Jacob and his goats, and the Bethel shown as a way to signify Jacob?
And what of the tower? I can't find any connection between Bethel and a tower. So why show the tower at all?
Before starting this tread, I did a search to see if Bethel or Baetyl had been mentioned before.. I found this post earlier in the thread:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=21550
Rusty Neon said:I personally favour the Tower of Babel interpretation.
Alternate speculation by Marcel Picard:
(1) Genesis, Ch. 28, verses 11 to 19: The stone erected by Jacob which he called Bethel (which means "House of God" in Hebrew)
I'm not sure what Marcel Picard says, so if anyone has any information on that I would appreciate learning about it.
best,
robert