Illustrated Pips VS Non-Illustrated

[Sulis]

I've never been one for rote memorization

I think you'll find that most people who use decks without pictures on the pip cards don't use rote memorization either.
You should go and take a look at the Marseilles forums, particularly the 'How May it be read?' threads, you'll be surprised

 

[kwaw]

So, instead of coming up with our own meanings for the cards, we're supposed use Waite's as a foundation? No thanks. I'd prefer the same route that he, and thousands of others have over the past 500+ years, and create my own.

He didn't create his own, he collected together the tradional DM's he had to hand from a variety of sources, including but not limited too for example Etteilla.

Why should a traditional DM of an italian suited card become null and void because Smith/Waite chose such to be illustrated in the RWS?

Kwaw

 

[Nina*]

Kwaw: What is DM?

 

[kwaw]

Kwaw: What is DM?

divinatory meaning.

 

[Nina*]

Thank you... and I agree with you completely.

 

[Sophie]

All minor arcana are illustrated. A curlicue of flowers around three cups is an illustration. But many of the modern ones are scenic.

I like quite a few scenic decks and use them regularly, but they are not as good for developing intuition and imagination as those decks without scenes on the minor arcana. Basically, scenes are the creator's own vision, imagination and intuition projected onto the arcana, and that directs one's own vision, imagination and intuition, instead of letting it run free as it can with non-scenic decks.

Just as I enjoy other people's stories and hearing their ideas, and taking them further in my own mind, I enjoy scenic decks. Just as I enjoy making up stories from basic elements and feeling the weather in the breath of the wind, I enjoy non-scenic decks. I learnt how to write poetry by imitating others' - but for my own poetry, I need to cut loose, I need the bare grammar and vocabulary of tarot without a pre-set storyline, and that's found in non-scenic decks.


To give a concrete example, with the 3 of Cups. If I look at three girls dancing, that limits my imagination and the possible meanings much more than if I see 3 Cups in a curlicue of flowers, which might be 3 cups for anything - joy or sadness, a party, a menage-à-trois, a business meeting in a pub, a spiritual communion, a church, a pyramid or a tetraktys, etc. Why limit my imagination to 3 girls dancing, when I can have so much more, and wider? The intuition too has to become that much sharper and more precise when you don't have the crutch of someone else's vision.

Basically, scenes on the pips are the training wheels of tarot, when it comes to using tarot for divination (if it is for meditation or for art creation or appreciation, that's another matter because there scenes play another function).

 

[Mimers]

I will use either, but I do prefer scenic pips. I find it enriching when I read. When I read with a Marsaille, I generally combine the number meaning with the suit meaning and then maybe a little intuition and stir it up. When I read with my illustrated pip decks I have a scene to pull imagery off and build a unique story around.

I guess what I am trying to say is that when I read with a Marseille, it is very kind of esoteric and serious reading. When I read with illustrated cards it is more like a story telling type of reading.

 

[WolfSpirit]

Though most of the decks I use for reading have fully illustrated minors, I must say that I am very drawn to what I call "moody-minors". Those are pips that are not fully illustrated like the RWS, but are not pips like the Marseille. Decks with "Moody-Minors" have limited imagery with the pips and colors that set a mood or tone, for example the Thoth, or the Cosmic Tribe (I would also put the Crystal in this category and the Celtic by DeBurgh)

I have decks with all kinds of minors but I also find I am often most drawn to the moody minors, there can be so much expression in them and yet they offer a much wider scope of interpretation than the scenic minors.
I love the minors in the Tarot of the Spirit, and the Vision Quest, and the Swedish Witch that seems a bit of a combination of scenic and moody minors.

 

[Sophie]

Wolfspirit - I recently received the Tarot of the Spirit in a trade, and I see exactly what you mean. It is stunning, and there is so much in those minors! I don't yet know how it reads for others, as I've not tried it on anyone but myself yet, but I find it expressive without being directive. I agree that the Crystal falls in that category, as indeed do some of the more modern Marseille decks (e.g. Fournier) or Marseille-inspired decks (Tarot de la Réa).


Incidentally, though I love the Tarot of the Eden Majors and Courts, I dislike the Minors - I find them flat. Not all unscenic decks are equal

 

[teomat]

I tend to veer from one extreme to the other (and this forum is a major factor in this!).

Up until I read this thread, I was working with the Rider Waite (and getting along fine). Now after reading all these eloquent posts about pip decks, I feel that I'm missing something and that I should be working with my Ancient Italian deck. Which is fine too (I like the deck very much).

But it kinda feels like being a jack of all trades, but never becoming a master of one...