"Killing the Thoth Deck" -Mary Greer

[Aeon418]

The Wizard Way

But for training and initiation, I don't think the internet adds anything but confusion. The internet is the sword of the intellect; it is also Da'ath, the false crown of knowledge.

It's a manifestion of that modern myth that says unlimited choice = maximum freedom. What a wonderfully seductive trap for the intellect! Compared to that definition of freedom, the freedom of Thelema is a paradox.

About 90 % of Thelema, at a guess, is nothing but self-discipline. One is only allowed to do anything and everything so as to have more scope for exercising that virtue.

 

[Freddie]

I have read several of the A.C. books and the only one I thought was outstanding was 'Diary of a Drug Fiend', so some of you please stop suggesting that the detractors of A.C. have not read any of his books. I have read and studyed (still studying and will be for life) the classic pre-Golden Dawn authors such as Levi, Papus and Wirth and find them far more witty and knowledgable concerning the Tarot than the A.C. mantra filled... I HATE JESUS...I HATE JESUS....I HATE JESUS zzzzzzzzzz....................zzzzzzzzz... 'Book of Thoth'...am I a lazy ass...**** no I'm not... I know a 'spoiled little drunken stoned rich boy' type when I see/read one.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...


Freddie

 

[Sophie]

Sophie, why should you take umbrage with the people who choose books other than Crowley's as companions for the Thoth deck, considering the fact that Crowley worked very hard at creating his wicked reputation? I can only imagine that if he knew that people are still bothered/disgusted/ frightened by his reputation, while at the same time they are drawn to his deck and use it, that he'd be pretty pleased. It's like a win win situation for him; he's still creeping people out, but those very people who find him creepy have his work in their hands every time they pick up their Thoth. Why be annoyed at something that would probably make Al very happy?

Prudence, I don't like intellectual dishonesty, and making judgements on hearsay is just that, whoever the hearsay concerns (I've never heard of that Hofman fellow, so I've no opinion on him).

What Crowley himself would like or not is irrelevant to me, he's not my guru.

I'm also peed off that USA held England to a draw, but I admit that's entirely fair and honest

 

[Debra]

Sophie, why should you take umbrage with the people who choose books other than Crowley's as companions for the Thoth deck, considering the fact that Crowley worked very hard at creating his wicked reputation?

Prudence, I don't like intellectual dishonesty, and making judgements on hearsay is just that, whoever the hearsay concerns (I've never heard of that Hofman fellow, so I've no opinion on him).

As a response to Prudence's question, this is a non sequitur--the choice itself is not intellectual dishonesty. There are many reasons to choose not to read Crowley, and even if his reputation is among them, the "hearsay" is his own carefully-cultivated reputation.

The most intellectually dishonest of all who are involved in or relevant to this discussion is Crowley himself.

 

[prudence]

Prudence, I don't like intellectual dishonesty, and making judgements on hearsay is just that, whoever the hearsay concerns (I've never heard of that Hofman fellow, so I've no opinion on him).

Why are you assuming it is only based on hearsay? In many cases it is based on things he said about himself.

You don't need to know who Hofman was to understand that he created LSD, as Crowley created the Thoth, and both of these men wrote about their creations...yet the affect of the trip is still unavoidable whether you read Hofman's writings about it or not. I am suggesting that the same may be said about the Thoth deck.

 

[Freddie]

Why are you assuming it is only based on hearsay? In many cases it is based on things he said about himself.

You don't need to know who Hofman was to understand that he created LSD, as Crowley created the Thoth, and both of these men wrote about their creations...yet the affect of the trip is still unavoidable whether you read Hofman's writings about it or not. I am suggesting that the same may be said about the Thoth deck.

I agree with you Prudence and it was what I was trying to say. If someone would say to me..'Why do you like Jim Morrison or Janis Joplin they were drug/sex addicts that led train wreck lifestyles' 'I would say of course that is how they lived and I wouldn't get defensive at all about it', but with A.C. fans it goes like this...'that is not correct...the papers made it up...the public ganged up on him...his child molesting references were misunderstood'. Hell Janis and Jim said they liked that lifestyle and I can accept them for just the way they were.

If some of you all like the man...then you like the man it is that simple. Please don't blame the people who don't care for him for making him appear to be an evil beast. He did that himself. I don't think he is the boogyman at all (in fact I feel bad for him ...maybe he was bipolar etc..and I'm convinced he was victim of child abuse), but he fancied himself as one.


Freddie

 

[prudence]

I have read several of the A.C. books and the only one I thought was outstanding was 'Diary of a Drug Fiend', so some of you please stop suggesting that the detractors of A.C. have not read any of his books. I have read and studyed (still studying and will be for life) the classic pre-Golden Dawn authors such as Levi, Papus and Wirth and find them far more witty and knowledgable concerning the Tarot than the A.C. mantra filled... I HATE JESUS...I HATE JESUS....I HATE JESUS zzzzzzzzzz....................zzzzzzzzz... 'Book of Thoth'...am I a lazy ass...**** no I'm not... I know a 'spoiled little drunken stoned rich boy' type when I see/read one.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...


Freddie

I want to thank you for acknowledging the big ass pink elephant that has been sitting squarely in the "living room" of this thread.

 

[Rosanne]

I know a 'spoiled little drunken stoned rich boy' type when I see/read one.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

I have laughed and laughed at your post Freddie!
Aeon418 posted this quote- I know not from where.....

About 90 % of Thelema, at a guess, is nothing but self-discipline. One is only allowed to do anything and everything so as to have more scope for exercising that virtue.

Now it would seem to me Crowley missed the 'more scope for exercising virtue' idea, but it becomes a circular argument like the Mormons at the door have... read it and understand, and if you don't then understand then you haven't read it correctly. Whats that word Debra uses.....Feh!

 

[Aeon418]

Aeon418 posted this quote- I know not from where.....

Mea culpa. Magick Without Tears, chp.70.

Now it would seem to me Crowley missed the 'more scope for exercising virtue' idea, but it becomes a circular argument like the Mormons at the door have... read it and understand, and if you don't then understand then you haven't read it correctly. Whats that word Debra uses.....Feh!

Congratulations!!!

Unwittingly you've just demonstrated what is wrong with this thread.

 

[Nevada]

I have laughed and laughed at your post Freddie!
[...](corrected to delete reference to quote not included)

Now it would seem to me Crowley missed the 'more scope for exercising virtue' idea, but it becomes a circular argument like the Mormons at the door have... read it and understand, and if you don't then understand then you haven't read it correctly. Whats that word Debra uses.....Feh!

Hee hee, and yes, to everything.

Freddie, !