Love is selfishness...most of the time...

[Ramses]

Hey folks...
How are you?...Hope you?re all fine!!!

Well, I ask you something...please, don?t judge me for my affirmation, before taking some time to ponder on what I?m about to state...

Love is selfishness, most of the time...or, at least, the love most of us declare to feel...I?m not saying that it?s wrong to love...all I?m saying is, if we try, we can give love a higher meaning, a higher value, a higher energy...

Most of the love we feel, most of the love we give, is a reflection of our interests...We love, because we don?t want to suffer with loneliness...we give love, because the necessity of the other makes us unconfortable...we give love, because we want to receive some love...we give love, because we want others to see us as better people...we give love, because we want to feel like better people...

But, has anyone here (and I?m talking about myself, as well...) ever done something without expecting to get any single sort of reward in return???...and by asking you all this question, I also ask you all to deeply look within your souls to find the true answer...Has any of us here ever done something because it simply felt like it had to be done, keeping any kind of feeling (of the self) out of sight?
Has any one of us given love, and when it went absolutelly unnoticed (or even we got hurt in return), felt absolutelly no kind of feeling of hurt in the heart???

Yes...what I?m saying is: we gotta try to do the right thing just because we know it?s the right thing...or because we feel like it?s the thing to be done...and never do something expecting another something in return...and never not do something, just because we knew we wouldn?t get something back for us...

It seems that we know this already...and most of the time, we think that?s what we?re doing...But, I think, that if we really try to be honest with ourselves, we?ll realize that most of the time we say we did something for love, we were actually doing that to get something in return...

I think that we should really do our best to follow the examples of Jesus, or Budha, or many others...who showed us how to really love...to do the right thing only for the sake of it...never expecting to get something back for ourselves...like, for example, Jesus, who even after being betrayed asked God for mercy on the souls of those who had been his killers...

Well...maybe you all disagree with me...maybe all I?ve said was non-sense...I don?t know...I just think that sometimes we say, and really try to believe, that we?re doing the right thing, just because we wanna feel like better people...and then, we end up not really caring for if the things we did were really the best we could do....

Well, that?s it...I don?t know...What do you all, friends, think???
Does it all make sense???

Thanks for your attention...and sorry, if I may have hurt you by any means...

 

[Malachite]

Why bother?...

At what point does an action become altruistic, and should it be?

If I love someone, I don;t care whether it makes me feel good. I just go with it...
Love is a bonding thing among humans. It's pack instinct. I don't think it makes much difference whether you expect love in return, as long is you give it out...
Most cases of societies trying to make people love without expecting anything have turned out to produce double standards...Look what happened to courtly love...
Trying to do that puts too much pressure on a person.
I think convincing people that love is something that is entirely one way is gonna make people feel guilty if they can't do that.
Sure, the important bit of love is the giving, but whats wrong with hoping for a bit of recieving?...

If I go out of my way to do something for someone, it may be because it makes me feel good.
Does that count as wanting something in return?...
I may not want cash, or even a favour returned, but I'm still gaining some kind of inner satisfaction by doing something

Hope that didn't sound too selfish..

 

[Bings]

I can't help but think of the love a mother feels for her newborn baby. The moment the baby is born it is placed on the mothers chest. There is a love felt at that moment that lasts a lifetime. The mother will wrap her arms around the baby to love, cherish and protect. There is nothing I expected in return at that moment. My children are no longer babies but when I wrap my arms around them nothing has changed. I do it to love, cherish and protect. I expect nothing in return. Sometimes if they are angry or hurt they won't hug me back. But that is OK. My love for them is still there and always will be there.

Dianne

 

[jade]

i often do 'random acts of kindness' where i purchase a coffee for a stranger or perhaps buy their lunch without them knowing who gave them that gift.

i also give to someone and have them give to someone else, rather than back to me to start creating a circle of giving. (but i always love sharing in the experience of hearing about the people who received )

i understand exactly what you mean. you aren't saying that we shouldn't love and be loved..........but that we should focus more on the act of loving than on the "what will i get in return"

you said it beautifully

i agree totally.

on the otherside however, i also know that exchange is very important. you must have energy coming in as well as going out. but when you love and give in kindness - it always comes back to you.

if someone doesn't like me and is hurtful to me, i always find that 10 others are kind and loving at that same moment. so it all balances out with love in the lead

excellent topic.

in light and love,
jade

 

[Umbrae]

Yeah for Bing and Jade.
Rmss, the is a wide gap between Love, and emotions.
Most folks confuse sex and Love (they are unrelated).

 

[truthsayer]

i echo everything jade said. i really believe in random acts of kindness. i don't know where the energy is going or if anything positive will come out of it but w/ all the negative chains started somebody needs to start just giving for the sake of giving. it's true that aimless giving to ppl who don't appreciate your sacrifice can empty your spirit after a while. so it is important for there to be an exchange of energy in order for things to karmically balance. i'm not always aware where that energy exhange occurs but i know it's happening when someone helps me randomly.

i am in 2 clubs right now that in the beginning i believed in their purpose and their goal of community and social improvement. then i realized something that really disturbed me. we weren't doing good for the sake of doing good. we were competing against other clubs by the same name for awards of who did the most good. i've done this about 4 years now. in the beginning, i just desparately wanted to meet ppl and to be involved in something to help others bigger than myself. now i feel very disillusioned due to some things that have happened over the past year. for example, we were going to do a breakfast w/ santa for kids in the area. but in the end, the club bailed out b/c not enough parents signed up their kids for the affair to be financially lucrative to the club. yet if the event had happened, we would have been in contention for some award for "doing good for children". i was very upset b/c if we truly meant to do good for children and as a club didn't have selfish motives then financial success shouldn't have been an issue.

then at a club meeting, i offered to allow the club to count my volunteer hours for the free clinic toward an award category. to my disgust, they got in an argement over what department should take credit for my work. after this club year is over, i'm probably dropping out b/c i won't be a hypocrite to a cause i no longer believe in. to me it lacks integrity to compete against other clubs to do social good. ach! maybe i'm being too judgemental of what makes these folks tick. i just know it's no longer for me.

when i can escape the demands of school work, i try to do volunteer work for a community free clinic and hospice group. i enjoy the comradery of the ppl i work w/. yes, i'm getting something for giving but it helps balance things out. they do monthly luncheons for fellowship but so far i feel okay about the integrity of these volunteer groups.i do it b/c giving is a reward in itself as long as i remember to take care of my own needs. if i give to others when i feel empty inside that is an invitation for disaster. if i feel empty when i give, part of me is hoping that i will recieve something to fill the emptiness. however, if my inner needs are taken care of then the possibility of my giving being fully altruistic is more likely.

 

[floracove]

True love within our beings is not selfish in any way
Our wants and needs may at times be selfish,
but true love is unconditional.

 

[Ramses]

yeah...I might have failed to explain what I was really trying to say...but I think that Jade and Truthsayer practically got pretty close to what I wanted to say ...

I don?t mean that getting something in return is wrong...I don?t mean that wanting to receive love is wrong...
All I?m saying is that, we should try harder to do good...and that, if somebody needs our help, but seems that kind of person who never values what we do, we should do the right thing anyway...

That?s as truthsayer and Jade said...we should focus more on the action, and not on what we get in return..

But... I know...people always tell me I have this problem...I always think too high...always think of the other side of the river, but forget that there is the whole river still to be crossed...
I always try to think we should be a Jesus, or a Budha already, and I forget we are only mortals, and that we are not perfect...we are here to learn....

Though...I do believe, as I said before, that we could do things in a better way...I?m not talking about saving the planet or anything like that...just that we shouldn?t be influenced so much by what people think of us, whether they likes us or not...

Well...I?d better stop here...yeah...probably I failed again to say what I really wanted, but...alright...maybe some other day I?ll make it ...
Thanks a lot everyone...

 

[Malachite]

Jesus and Buddha did their thing, and died.
They are mortal too.

So is Martin Luther King, so is Gandhi, so is Mother Theresa, so is Mikhail Gorbachev.

They still all managed to have great impacts on society.

Lets not be shy...
Us Mortals are in good company.

 

[Kiama]

I remember an episode of 'Friends', where Phoebe had a bet with somebody that she could do one single act which wasn't at all 'selfish', which meant that the act she did was not to get something back at all. She could not receive anything back from that act, or it wouldn't count. The conclusion was that it is impossible.

I agree. If we act in any way, do a random act of kindness, volunteer to help starving children on the streets, whatever, we always get something out of it, even if we don't do the act intentionally for that reward. For instance, I am a volunteer member of St John Ambulance, and have been since I was 8. This means that I have given over 1500 hours of my time in the last 6 years to offer care and fist aid to people in nursing homes, at public events, sports events whatever. I would spend hours on a Sunday morning in the cold and rain watching rugby players, then treating their injuries. I was crewing the ambulance by the age of 15, and regularly accompanied really badly wounded people to hospital, administering entonox and oxygen to them, keeping them awake, comforting them, holding their hand through the pain. I remember once, there was this rugby player who dislocated his finger. He so desperately wanted to carry on playing, cuz it was a really important match, so, I held him against me, and held his hands, whilst my father (Who is also a dedicated volunteer for St John Ambulance) painfully relocated it. The guy went on playing, and helped win the game...

I also remember one casualty my Mother and I (Yep, me mum's in it too!) dealt with at a theatre. She had fallen down the stairs, was quite old, was feeling very sick, nauseus, dizzy... She had banged her head, and these were all symptoms of shock and minor concussion. We treated the head wound, and waited with her for the ambluance to arrive. About 6 months later, we were at the same theater, and this same lady came up to me nd Mum, recognising us, gave us this huge hug and kiss, and thanked us for what we had one for her. That gratitude meant so much to me.

Over the years, I have dealt with 100's of casualties. The feeling I got when I finished another day's first-aid coverage was one of true contentment: I had helped somebody. I had been there when that person needed me. I had show them love when they needed it, and support when they needed it too. I may have volunteered to be a member of St John Ambulance, and I may not have expected to get anything out of it, as a reward, but in the end, I did. It was inevitable.

But I don't think that this makes it a selfish action, which some people are inclined to say, as the Friends aepisode concluded. I think that it could only be classed as 'selfish' (Is this the right word to use?) when you actually expect a reward, such as... When you are a kid, and you mow the lawn for the old lady next door cuz you know she'll give you sweets.)

Hmmm.... This is the end of my post.

Kiama