Paul Huson / Camoin confusion 'regard' method

Freddie

Greetings All,

I have been interested in using a 'regard' method with a TDM style deck (Oswald Wirth Us Games/Marseille Fornier). I read on the net Camoin has copyrighted this method of adding more cards due to the direction the people in them face..point to..etc... for example : since key V 'Le Pape' is facing left, a card should be laid out to left for further information he is referring to (regarding).

Lo and behold, I was reading 'The Devil's Picturebook' (printed in 1971) by Paul Huson and was shocked to see that he mentions this 'regard' sytem very briefly. This tells me that this system is at least way older than the Camoin copyright (1999).

This would seem to me to be an old Gypsy method, but maybe I am wrong.

Does anyone here know of any books/information about this method?

Thanks,

Freddie
 

Ravenstongue

I don't know of any books or such like, but, for what its worth, when I and my friends were reading the Tarot in the late sixties/early seventies this 'regard' method was in common use. It was always around and no-one thought it was a new way of working (it caused a lot of confusion to be honest as you have to be convinced of its worth before you begin, but that's not what you were asking is it? lol).

As far as I know the 'regard' method has been around for as long as fortune telling with playing cards has been in existence. I really don't see how anyone can copyright it since it is a well known tradition and he certainly didn't invent it. I don't know where you live but UK law doesn't allow copyright on a demonstrable tradition.
 

AJ

I think there is a comprehensive review of his book in the historical forum.
 

Tania Bernd

Hi,

A friend of mine told me about an author, Tchalai Unger, who has also used and written about this approach to the cards.

TB
 

RexMalaki

Freddie said:
Greetings All,

I have been interested in using a 'regard' method with a TDM style deck (Oswald Wirth Us Games/Marseille Fornier). I read on the net Camoin has copyrighted this method of adding more cards due to the direction the people in them face..point to..etc... for example : since key V 'Le Pape' is facing left, a card should be laid out to left for further information he is referring to (regarding).

...

Does anyone here know of any books/information about this method?

Thanks,

Freddie
Click to expand...

It's not Camoin's same method, but Robert Place talks about reading based on the regard, which direction a character on a card faces, in his book: The Tarot: History, Symbolism & Divination. It's in the last section of the book if I remember correctly. I'm not sure if he adds cards based on regard though.
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/books/history-symbolism-divination/

I'd like to hear of a traditional source for this type of reading too. Traditional methods are not always written down though.

I found this on Aeclectic's search for Tchalai Unger, thanks Tania Bernd:
http://www.tarotforum.net/archive/index.php/t-99796.html

But it looks like it might be hard to find a copy of any of her books, and no mention of this *regarding* method in that thread.

There is this:
*... but Tchalai Unger’s book comes to mind (originally published to accompany Grimaud’s tarot), ...*
quoted from:
http://forum.tarothistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=437&p=5908

I'm very interested in old gypsy methods though; any rules of thumb on *regard* for cards handed down from generation to generation for centuries??
 

kwaw

Freddie said:
I have been interested in using a 'regard' method with a TDM style deck (Oswald Wirth Us Games/Marseille Fornier). I read on the net Camoin has copyrighted this method ...
Click to expand...

...he also claims copyright to spreading the card in sequence into three rows of seven columns! Like Oh yeah, no one has thought of doing that before lol :)

copyright sloppyright, pinch and salt come to mind...
 

frelkins

Paul - where did Paul go :?: - used to be a huge Camoin fan in the History forums. I recall we had a private message exchange - or maybe I'm mis-remembering - where we discussed that Camoin had copyrighted his entire procedure. Nothing individually - like the regards - was particularly new, but what was novel was the entire "flow" or order of steps in the method, which made it protectable under French law. Or something like that. It seems ages since Paul was around . . . what's great about tarot is that you can take many common elements and use them . . .we extend the tradition this way. . . :)
 

Greg Stanton

Camoin is a bit of a nutter. You can't copyright ideas. In America, you can't even copyright designs, only words. Maybe in Europe things are different.

Anyway, even if someone wanted to write about similar (or even identical) methods, there's no law I know of that prohibits this, as long as your description is not taken verbatim from a copyrighted source.
 

Tania Bernd

Tchalai Unger

Hi,

For those speaking Spanish, a copy of Tchalai Unger`s book “El Tarot, la respuesta del Futuro” should still be available at http://www.scribd.com. Although I have only briefly gone through it, I think it is worth reading. I could not specifically find there the regard issue, but pages 58-63 show the importance of paying attention to iconografic details so that one can sort of “group” cards for a clearer vision of how they interact.

Rgds, TB
 
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