Pictures of men reading cards prior to 1960??

[Teheuti]

Jeux de Cartes Tarots et de Cartes Numerales
by
Jean Duchesne,
It was the cover of the Christie's Auction Catalogue of the Kaplan auction of their card collection of Wednesday, June 21, 2006, lot 221.

That image has been around for a long time although I've only seen it in black-and-white before. I used the image in one of my early books. However it seems clear that it's a woman reading cards for a man (even though he's the one with long hair). I think that is a sword going from his hand toward the bottom right.

Does anyone know the origin of this woodcut? Was Duchesne the first?

Mary

 

[Teheuti]

Does anyone know the origin of this woodcut? Was Duchesne the first?

I forgot I had information for this one in my book Tarot Mirrors (wrong spelling for the artist, though).

Here's a good reproduction of the original
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kulturbilder_354.JPG
It's generally dated to the end of the 15th century.

The question is - what's actually going on here???

1) Are they playing a card game? Or
2) Is the man showing horror that this woman has dared to bring out a deck of cards? Or
3) Has the woman said something shocking to the man regarding the card she is holding in her hand? Or
4) Other - please specify

I vote for number 3. A comparison with other pictures of card games versus pictures of cartomancy shows far more characteristics in common with the latter rather than with the former.

What do you think?

 

[Teheuti]

Fortune Telling By Cards by Professor P.R.S. Foli (Sir Cyril Arthur Pearson).
By the way, Sir Cyril was quite an interesting fellow!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Arthur_Pearson

Fabulous information, Cerulean. It's really interesting to think that a baronet newspaper magnet stooped to writing a book on cartomancy.

 

[Bernice]

Hi Teheuti,

Teheuti: The question is - what's actually going on here???

I viewed the image at full resolution, and It looks to me like the gent is exclaiming at the accuracy of something which the lady has said/revealed. See, she is smiling, with a look that says "There you go, I'm right arn't I....?". And the gent is visibly AMAZED!

Bee

 

[Teheuti]

I've been looking at several hundred images of card players and readers. I'd say there are no more than two to four in the past 600 years among them that are ambiguous as to whether there is a card game going on or a card reading. They include this Israhel van Meckenem print (from the late 15th c.) and the Lucas van Leyden (1494-1533) painting, believed to be of Margarethe of Austria at a card table that is generally called “The Fortune Teller” (c. 1508)Ú
http://www.art-prints-on-demand.com/a/van-leyden-lucas/the-fortune-teller-6.html

None of the normal card player visual conventions appear here and many of the card reader ones do. Both of the above mentioned images appear in many sources identified as a fortune-teller (in a variety of languages).

BTW, I've found a couple of other pictures showing men reading cards, although most are from the turn-of-the-century (early 20th c.) period. It's still less than 10% out of nearly a hundred works that I've found, and the conditions shown are markedly different than those shown for women readers. I'm still looking if anyone comes across any more.

 

[Debra]

Here's a good reproduction of the original
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kulturbilder_354.JPG
It's generally dated to the end of the 15th century.

The question is - what's actually going on here???

1) Are they playing a card game? Or
2) Is the man showing horror that this woman has dared to bring out a deck of cards? Or
3) Has the woman said something shocking to the man regarding the card she is holding in her hand? Or
4) Other - please specify

I don't know what's going on; I'm hung up on trying to figure out where they are. First thought was "church" from the architecture, but there are "homey" touches. A very wealthy home or castle, in the kitchen or some kind of sitting room? What's the pot hanging from the wall bracket?

Would a man and a woman be alone playing cards?

Because there is a stack of cards in front of him and her both, I'm inclined toward a card game (1). I'd like it to be (3), though.

 

[Bernice]

Like I said in a previous post, there seem to be hardly any pics of male card-readers. It's very surprising - unless there used to be pics, but due to periods of gaming/cards being outlawed in various countries, maybe they were destroyed.

Just remembering the witch-hunts..... I don't think you'd like to be caught with cards or card images in your possessions or home.

Still keeping an eye open.

Bee

 

[Teheuti]

Like I said in a previous post, there seem to be hardly any pics of male card-readers. It's very surprising - unless there used to be pics, but due to periods of gaming/cards being outlawed in various countries, maybe they were destroyed.

Just remembering the witch-hunts..... I don't think you'd like to be caught with cards or card images in your possessions or home.

The witch hunters weren't looking for cards. Yes, cards have been burnt but more often as luxury items or gambling implements. Most cartomancy pictures come from the late 18th century onward. Yet, there are quite a few pictures of card playing from earlier than that. Mostly cards were restricted—to only be played on holidays—in order to keep people from playing cards instead of working. The earliest images of card players seem to indicate that it was considered part of courting rituals (although usually more people are present than just the couple themselves).

 

[Teheuti]

First thought was "church" from the architecture, but there are "homey" touches. A very wealthy home or castle, in the kitchen or some kind of sitting room? What's the pot hanging from the wall bracket?

Would a man and a woman be alone playing cards?

Because there is a stack of cards in front of him and her both, I'm inclined toward a card game (1). I'd like it to be (3), though.

The room is reminiscent of other household interiors by van Meckenem - and probably more of a well-to-do middle class environment rather than a courtly one. He was known for his household scenes that often depicted married couples doing everyday things. Am not sure about the pot. The table seems to be rather like our breakfast booths - with carved sides. Here's another interior although it seems to represent Christ eating out at an inn with a few of his disciples: http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/LargeImage.aspx?image=/lotfinderimages/d47825/d4782574x.jpg

Notice that the woman has cards directly in front of her. If you drew an X across the whole table top you'd see that, given the perspective used, the cards are not really that close to the man and are further away than if he were actively engaged in playing. Also, that pile represents the majority of the cards, so shouldn't that make him the winner? Those could simply be the cards that are not being used in the reading itself. If he was being shown as having lost the game, then shouldn't his losing card(s) also be apparent? Such is the case in other artworks, where the loser has thrown the cards onto the table or even the floor.

Almost all the pictures I've seen of card players - including many from that period show either cards fanned in the hands of one or more players and/or cards spread out in front of each player (as if counting points or determining the hand). This is pretty much the only image I know of that doesn't indicate directly that all the players are involved in the game.

 

[Teheuti]

It's worth contrasting the van Meckenem picture with this one from around 1480 (note similar style and clothing):
http://curiousfrau.com/Images/hausbuch/h_bxg_99.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kulturbilder_354.JPG

BTW, van Meckenem used that same style feather in the hair in a couple of his own prints.