RW Redressed?

Luna-Ocean

Hello

I have been following an interesting its an art group who are recreating the Rider Waite Archetypal characters by redressing them in alter gender clothing its a Majors only deck, i have seen a few of the images and i have asked for permission to use them here.

rwcarter

Luna-Ocean said:
I have been following an interesting Tarot group based on LGBT lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender, its an art group who are recreating the RW Archetypal characters by redressing them in alter gender clothing its a Majors only deck, i have seen a few of the images and i have asked for permission to use them here.

Interesting idea. I must not be understanding your use of "alter gender clothing" though as of the four cards you showed, only the Fool has alter gender clothing on. The women in the Lovers and Devil are in dresses and the men in those cards are in pants. The Emperor as a leather master makes sense, but again, that's not alter gender clothing unless the fact that it's purple leather makes it somehow more feminine.

Rodney

Luna-Ocean

rwcarter said:
Interesting idea. I must not be understanding your use of "alter gender clothing" though as of the four cards you showed, only the Fool has alter gender clothing on. The women in the Lovers and Devil are in dresses and the men in those cards are in pants. The Emperor as a leather master makes sense, but again, that's not alter gender clothing unless the fact that it's purple leather makes it somehow more feminine.

Rodney

Hi

Yes i wasn't sure what 'alter gender clothing' was exactly i thought by making you look like your opposite persona in some way? i think the Emperor made me chuckle being in leathers, i do find the whole gay/transgender idea very interesting as Pamela had worked with many theatrical gay actors and of course gay sexuality was prohibited by law at that time?

Tanga

Luna-Ocean said:
...I have been following an interesting Tarot group based on LGBT...an art group who are recreating the RW Archetypal characters by redressing them in alter gender clothing

I would agree with Rodney. There's only one "alter gender clothing" in your examples.
Traditionally - The Devil is "everything" is hir not?

(Baphomet is both sexes, I believe).
I don't see how putting hir in clothes makes any kind of flip. Infact, I think it detracts from the usual impact imo. Unless one is drawing a completely different type of Devil... like the one in Parallel Worlds Tarot - where it's actually a rather evil looking clown (in clown clothes) - but... he has hooves.

Would be interesting to see a bit more of the deck.

Putting The Fool in a dress - doesn't make any difference to the meaning for me (but then - I'm not particularly fixed on the "traditional gender" presented in tarot.
And how does putting the emperor in leathers emasculate him? Hmm. Interesting.
I suppose - it does make him sort-of less "rigid" in his outlook (as we are used to seeing him) - which of course might be "bending" (Lol - sorry - just saw the amusement in that word)
AN original view of him.

I have a couple of decks that do reverse some of the "traditional" gender imagery.

And you are right - during Pammy's time (Pamela Coleman Smith) alternate gender was prohibited. Your choice was prison or chemical alteration if you were found out.

Luna-Ocean said:
...you will see with the Fool that some readers might interpret this card has being openly free with their sexuality i have often had this card to give me an indication of Bi-sexuality.

I hadn't thought about that (not come up yet probably) - but yes - that's one perfect interpretation. Thank you for drawing my attention to it.

Luna-Ocean

Tanga said:
I hadn't thought about that (not come up yet probably) - but yes - that's one perfect interpretation. Thank you for drawing my attention to it.

Thanks, the Fool for me is just being freely adventurous and again being sexually free thats how i usually see that interpretion? i have always found the image of the RW Fool to look kinda feminine i'm not sure if flamboyant is a better description to use? maybe it was what Pamela had in mind when illustrating the clothing for the Fool that makes me think that.

Tanga

Luna-Ocean said:
...maybe it was what Pamela had in mind when illustrating the clothing for the Fool that makes me think that.

Was it her intention? I haven't a clue.
A history buff here might know...

Luna-Ocean

Tanga said:
I have a couple of decks that do reverse some of the "traditional" gender imagery.

And you are right - during Pammy's time (Pamela Coleman Smith) alternate gender was prohibited. Your choice was prison or chemical alteration if you were found out.

.

What are the gender decks that you have, i have seen the Gay Tarot i liked the imagery of the gay marriage that was on the Hierophant card?

Tanga

Luna-Ocean said:
What are the gender decks that you have, i have seen the Gay Tarot i liked the imagery of the gay marriage that was on the Hierophant card?

Manga Tarot has a large number of gender reversals from what they usually appear as...
The Sorceress (Magician), Hanged Woman, Strength, Hermit, Star, - quite a few of the minors that we usually see have a reversed gender too.
I like that the 3 of Cups are 3 chaps each holding a fan - looks like they're in a performance.
I also really like Temperance. It's a naked man kneeling at a small waterfall...he has removed his armour to either drink or wash, and he has a dove tattoo on his chest. The blending of masculine and feminine here is palpably poignant for me.

Gendron Tarot has some reversed - The Magus (Magician), The Hanged One and The Sun come to mind.
The Magus here is a favourite - because she's surrounded by a menagerie which includes a black cat.

Fradella Adventure Tarot also has some gender swaps... Strength is a favourite card from this deck. It's a man wrestling with a giant green serpent (in the Manga Tarot - it's a man wrestling a dragon).

Luna-Ocean

Would you view the Empress has being a feminist? it was not since the influential gay movement back in the 70's did we understand more about feminism and woman rights, i have often thought that the Empress was more then just a motherly figure who bared children but more of a liberator who gives love and protection to all woman?

Tanga

Luna-Ocean said:
Would you view the Empress has being a feminist? it was not since the influential gay movement back in the 70's did we understand more about feminism and woman rights, i have often thought that the Empress was more then just a motherly figure who bared children but more of a liberator who gives love and protection to all woman?

Have a good look at this Empress from the Barbieri Tarot (card III):
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/barbieri-tarot/

Isn't she magnificent? A liberator, a protector, an amazon of women!
(and yes - it is a "Dark Deck" imo).