RWS Fool Opposite Marseille Fool

[Zephyros]

I dunno, I kind of like the idea. The Fool begins the journey because he wants to, because life has driven him to learn, and study, and in essence, to live. For me, the Fool represents The Great Nothing. Pure potential. What the universe was made of before it was created. On the journey he finds out about himself and his surroundings. In the End he comes to the stage that he is The World, which, obviously is The Great Everything. All encompasing, looking ever outward because it is a whole within itself.
Now my question was, what did the makers of the RWS know that the makers of the Marseille didn't, or vice-versa?

 

[Vincent]

*****

 

[TemperanceAngel]

Aaaahhhhh, Vincent, great to see you back XTAX

 

[Fulgour]

...two left feet?

From his overall stance and how his neck often appears to be twisted, I have at times wondered if some of the older Le Mat cards were depicting him as walking backwards ~ even the spoon over his shoulder is to the opposite side.

And please don't laugh, but have you ever tried to imitate the posture on Pamela's Fool? I can't do it without staggering to catch my balance. Then there are the boots ~ both appear to be sized to fit the left foot... Ok, laugh ~ I did, especially at myself, but do give it a try.

My feeling is that Pam was putting a new twist on an old tale, in her very special and brilliant way ~ another gift to us from her gentle and playful spirit.

 

[Penelope]

Maybe the Aleph-Fool goes left, and the Taw-Fool goes right.
The Marseille Le Fol is looking backwards though.

 

[smleite]

First of all, I must say I do link the Marseilles Fool to pilgrimage – and hence, the fact that he travels to east seems important in several ways. Having his face turned backwards is also important, of course. I tend to interpret it the same way I interpret his bag – every man travels through life carrying a burden that is more or less heavy on his shoulder and delays him sometimes, but also gives him comfort in many occasions, that is mainly composed by his experiences, and all that makes him the man he is. Looking backwards is a gesture that reminds us, again, of our past and our past experiences, the ones we run from and the ones we run with. Experiences that made us what we are, at one time more wise and more fool, both fragile and stronger. A burden is also… luggage.

In the RWS decks, The Fool goes in the opposite direction from the Sun – symbolically, he goes west. What blinds him is not the blazing sun in his eyes, but rather the fact that he seems to prefer keeping himself from seeing life the way it is. The difference between them is mainly caused by a different interpretation. He was made to be more fool than wise; the Marseilles fool is very ambiguous, and more, if we take into account the images he seems to be based in – the medieval and renaissance “fools” depicted in art are generally presented as being wiser than the average man, and Hieronymus Bosch’s “Pilgrim”, a perfect “Fool”, is a very good example of this.

 

[Vincent]

In the RWS decks, The Fool goes in the opposite direction from the Sun – symbolically, he goes west.

The Sun is very important in this card. It is the only Sun in the deck that it is coloured white, (and the fourteen rays which emanate from it may also be significant), as is the fact the Fool is moving away from the Sun.

That he is beginning his descent, would seem to be more important than any suggestion of his moving West.


Vincent

 

[Rusty Neon]

Could the source deck be a deck other than the Marseilles deck?

Why does the RWS fool stand in opposing direction of TdM fool?

It should remembered that, at the time that the RW deck was created, the Tarot de Marseille was not in common circulation as it is today. Italian tarot decks were more readily available at that time. I understand that GD members often used Italian tarot decks. Thus, it may be that Waite and Smith used a tarot deck other than the Marseille as a model for the major arcana including the Fool. Which deck, I leave for discussion. However, I looked at the Fool card of the Lo Scarabeo Ancient Italian Tarots deck and I regret to advise that that deck's Fool faced the same direction as the Marseilles Fool. I wonder if there is any deck that would have been in common circulation that did face the same direction as the RW Fool?

 

[Umbrae]

The Man Who Would be King - Rudyard Kipling
...I ask you as a stranger — going to the West,” he said with emphasis.
“Where have you come from?” said I.
“From the East,” said he, “and I am hoping that you will give him the message on the Square — for the sake of my Mother as well as your own.”

Much of A.E. Waite’s imagery is based upon traditional Freemasonry.

It makes a huge difference in how you ‘place’ the Fool, as an Apprentice, or as a Master (beginning or the end of the Major Arcana series).

He could be traveling west. Or (as in the Marseilles), arising – and traveling to the NE corner…

…just a thought…

 

[Vincent]

Much of A.E. Waite’s imagery is based upon traditional Freemasonry.

Yes there is a lot of Masonic symbolism in Waite's deck, (which might account for the significance of the fourteen rays emanating from the sun,) but what do you mean by traditional Freemasonry?

As opposed to what?

It makes a huge difference in how you ‘place’ the Fool, as an Apprentice, or as a Master (beginning or the end of the Major Arcana series).

It's seems quite obvious where Waite wished to place it, despite the obvious blinds in the PKT, though I have heard arguments to the contrary.

And, why would it make a difference to an Entered Apprentice or a Master Mason as to where the Fool is placed?

Although Waite's Tarot has Masonic connections, is there any evidence that Tarot plays any role in Blue Lodge, or Craft Masonry?

He could be traveling west. Or (as in the Marseilles), arising – and traveling to the NE corner…

He might, but then again he might not be travelling at all.

Waite says;

"...His act of eager walking is still indicated, though he is stationary at the given moment; his dog is still bounding...


Vincent