Tarot Archetypes- the old, and possibly new?

[Penthasilia]

Perhaps I am missing the point or being too simplistic, but the following decks seem to me to meet the criteria as I understand it. They are taking us in new directions, with new Iconography new Archetypes, new attitudes, new meanings. All of them require work, all of them are worth the work.
In no particular order:

Ironwing

Greenwood

Wild Unknown

Silicon Dawn

Mary El

I see it too- and would probably think of the Greenwood as the progenitor to the Ironwing and Wild Unknown (and Wildwood) as the first of the shamanic decks. ETA- probably should list Tarot of the Trees as well...

I guess the Mary El and Silicon Dawn we will have to see- if they spark new decks that follow in their particular footsteps...

 

[magpie9]

I agree with the Greenwood as Progenitor of the Shamanic movement in tarot, but see the Ironwing as being qualified too because of the huge change in iconography. No familiar scenes. The Humans are not quite human overall, because of masks and ceremonial etc....the link is there to the Greenwood, but Ironwing has gone a long way past it into the world of spirit of the earth itself. With the Wild Unknown, the humans are completely gone, and we don't miss them. They are a very different point of view, and personally I don't find much link to RWS or Thoth.

ETA: Egypt Urnesh is talking about creating another deck....!

 

[Le Fanu]

ETA: Egypt Urnesh is talking about creating another deck....!

Wondering whether someone can redefine tarot twice within the same lifetime.

I'm not sure where I place the Wild Unknown. I love it but it seems too early to consider it groundbreaking in that sense. It bears more resemblence - via a different iconography - to the RWS than either the Mary El or the Ironwing. Even the Greenwood has a boat in the 6 of swords and a pierced heart in the 3 swords... The Ironwing is truly different, but I think its lack of universal symbols goes against it. I have studied the Ironwing and it is a difficult deck - but so is the Thoth - yet the symbols are really very obscure. Having to memorise archetypes because you don't recognise them does not work in its favour.

Crazed as this sounds, what the Wild Unknown does reminds me of the Cruel Thing tarot, creating tensions and meaning through a simple arrangement of suit symbols. In the case of the Cruel Thing you have to be familiar with the RWS images to "get" it but in the Wild Unknown, less so .

 

[Egypt Urnash]

ETA: Egypt Urnash is talking about creating another deck....!

I wouldn't recommend holding your breath. n.n

I've got some ideas kicking around here and there but I'm feeling pretty firmly committed to comics right now - I think I've got plans in that field reaching out to about 2017 at the earliest, and that's if I can keep up a pretty fast pace of drawing and writing.

Plus I'm really not convinced any of the half-baked ideas I have are compelling enough to have a chance of being a worthy follow-up. They just feel like Silicon Dawn 2: Electric Boogaloo.

Also: I would describe the Silicon Dawn as a hybrid of the Golden Dawn and the Thoth, plus my own bits of insanity. Whether or not it's going to be a model for a NEW AEON OF TAROT!!1! I can't say - I'm flattered by people even suggesting that, and my bank account would certainly like it to be - but I think, yeah, SOMEONE is going to do a deck that really taps into the spirit of the age and becomes a much-imitated classic. Either that or 90% of the population of the world will die in the messy collapse of capitalism.

 

[magpie9]

but I think, yeah, SOMEONE is going to do a deck that really taps into the spirit of the age and becomes a much-imitated classic. Either that or 90% of the population of the world will die in the messy collapse of capitalism.

Nice to have choices!

 

[momentarylight]

I nominate the Tarot of the Crone by Ellen Lorenzi Prince as a unique version of tarot.

Her symbols are original and derived from her personal mystical journey which has resonance with many women. It is a stunning deck, stark but beautiful.

When we speak about tarot in this context we do mean a structure of 78 cards, including courts, minors and suits? Otherwise, it would not be tarot.

The companion book is very good as well.

One might see Rachel Pollack's Shining Tribe as original too, and I like that deck, but it doesn't quite reach the level of the Crone for me.

 

[Parzival]

Tarot Archetypes

Except for the Marseilles, Visconti and other pre-de Gebelin decks, the "advances" in Tarot were made by occultists who also dictated their aesthetic design. It was they who really gave Tarot its esoteric structure. The Sola Busca may have pictures, but it has, I believe, a lot more in common with the Marseilles than with the RWS.

The artists may change, but not that much has changed since the Golden Dawn, except superficially. This must be kept in mind when speaking about Tarot evolution. Not that I'm saying it can't, or shouldn't, but I don't see an uninitiated artist being the one that does it.

It's interesting that the Visconti deck has artistic/spiritual archetypes running through it, such as the Platonic virtues (Prudence, Fortitude, Justice, Temperance) and the increasing magnitude of Star, Moon, Sun, etc. Suits and numbers are archetypal. The Golden Dawn mixed in Kabbalah and astrology, adding more archetypes, layering over the original ones, from simple to complex. A gain as well as a loss, I think. Recently, there have been decks based upon myths of various cultures, bringing in Celtic, Native American, Greek, Buddhist, Sufi, Hindu archetyes-- It's not so much one deck as a local/global shift away form the European historic emphasis. Tarot is turning into a multi-cultural world of spiritual art, with some depth to it and some superficiality, too.

 

[Aivli]

Would the Dreams of Gaia Tarot by Ravynne Phelan fit these characteristics??

 

[Zephyros]

It's interesting that the Visconti deck has artistic/spiritual archetypes running through it, such as the Platonic virtues (Prudence, Fortitude, Justice, Temperance) and the increasing magnitude of Star, Moon, Sun, etc. Suits and numbers are archetypal. The Golden Dawn mixed in Kabbalah and astrology, adding more archetypes, layering over the original ones, from simple to complex. A gain as well as a loss, I think. Recently, there have been decks based upon myths of various cultures, bringing in Celtic, Native American, Greek, Buddhist, Sufi, Hindu archetyes-- It's not so much one deck as a local/global shift away form the European historic emphasis. Tarot is turning into a multi-cultural world of spiritual art, with some depth to it and some superficiality, too.

I agree in principle, but my problem is with structure. Orders like the Golden Dawn began with a relatively clean slate, and expanded on it. Sure, one could find esoteric echoes in the Marseilles and Visconti, and Papus and Ettiella did superimpose the Tree of Life onto the Tarot but in terms of the progression of the story and the descent of the elements the GD did do something new. While there are many multi-cultural decks out there that use a variety of symbols, the basic structure of these decks is inherently the same. Even if these decks go out of their way to use different symbols, the story they tell is still much the same (for example, Ace of Swords good, Ten of Swords bad). The descent of the elements is very much a Kabbalistic concept, and while it is a system I myself am enamored by and general decimal structure works surprisingly well with, there are other systems and structures out there, but few decks make the leap, and I suspect not many deck creators actually understand there is a leap to be made. In other words, it's still the same deck, even if it speaks a different language. Kabbalistic symbolism need not be overt to still be the deck's backbone; it's there even if you don't see it.

After all, why should a Buddhist deck still retain a Kabbalistic structure, in effect telling the biblical Genesis story, alien to it? Why should a Pagan deck do the same? Even the International Icon, as neutral as it is, isn't really. There are exceptions, of course. The Holy Light is one in that although it does use the Tree, it is not the Kirtcher Tree used by the GD. The Voodoo Tarot is another.

 

[Parzival]

Tarot Archetypes

I agree in principle, but my problem is with structure. Orders like the Golden Dawn began with a relatively clean slate, and expanded on it.....

After all, why should a Buddhist deck still retain a Kabbalistic structure, in effect telling the biblical Genesis story, alien to it? Why should a Pagan deck do the same? Even the International Icon, as neutral as it is, isn't really. There are exceptions, of course. The Holy Light is one in that although it does use the Tree, it is not the Kirtcher Tree used by the GD. The Voodoo Tarot is another.

Two points to your thoughtful considerations: first, the Golden Dawn took up the order of the Renaissance Trumps and Marseilles Trumps, and kept the 4 suits; it interwove more specific Kabbalistic and astrologic symbols, that is it alloyed the historic Trumps and suits to European esotericism. The recent multicultural decks do not go to biblical genesis in any way-- they conjoin some of the historic roots (Renaissance) and later branches (Golden Dawn) with distinctly focused cultural myths and symbols, creating a progressive movement forward with the Tarot-- consider the Sacred India deck and Rumi deck as examples. But this is not a great leap away from all the past Tarot-- it's a local and global synthesis, since the local cultural emphasis blends with the universal (though European based)l content of the Trumps and suits. Surely there is more breakthrough to come!