Where does "True Will" come from?

Richard

I'd like to drift back on topic before I wander too far afield.

.......At least in the GD system, the ultimate goal, even beyond True Will, is complete annihilation of the ego and union with the All (Keter in Atziluth)........
That's why I tend to distinguish between the inner Self as the indwelling Son (the Tiphareth Sun) and the higher Self as the Ancient of Days (the Kether Sun). Moreover, I am viewing the process more subjectively. Describing the ultimate goal as the annihilation of the ego and a sort of dispersion of one's essence throughout the cosmos comes across like losing oneself in the All, whereas the ultimate goal of the Great Work is Self realization, which is finding one's true or higher Self.

It is not as if one is suddenly transformed into an entirely different thing, vaporized and spread all over the universe like the ashes from a cremation. It is just a realization of what one has truely been all along. You are the metaphorical 'bearded old man' of Kether, you just don't realize it yet.

No, I am not a megalomanic. At least I don't think so. However, I do think it is wise to be cautious when discussing these things.
 

ravenest

Oh, love this.
I wish I could recall the exact description of a Buddha in the San Francisco Asian Art Museum, but he had weapons in his hands. The description was a Buddha that fought ignorance, fear and greed. I so wish that were in my image.

A while back I was 'throwing Tankas' ( posting amazing paintings of Tibetan Buddas at people }) ) one was the Buddha who vanquished teachers of false Dharma :) - here is one for you - ( don't worry it is a safe one :angel: )

Vajrayogini (Vajra – heavenly thunderbolt - see Thoth 2 of Wands. Yogini – female Yogi )

http://www.exoticindia.com/buddha/vajrayogini_mandala_to86.jpg

ah … what the heck … have two

http://v7.tsemtulku.com/images/stories/resources/freepictures/deitypics/vajrayogini2006B.jpg

( It might take a bit to load but worth it – its expandable .)
 

ravenest

I just thought of another answer to the post title question;

The Ace of Wands.

To be bold I will actually say T.W. comes from one of the wands in the 2 of wands and HGA comes from the other wand in the two of wands (and they are crossed).
 

Abrac

After reading my previous post it doesn't make much sense even to me.

I think I'll just admit I don't know enough to discuss it intelligently and bow out. :laugh:
 

Zephyros

It is not as if one is suddenly transformed into an entirely different thing, vaporized and spread all over the universe like the ashes from a cremation. It is just a realization of what one has truely been all along. You are the metaphorical 'bearded old man' of Kether, you just don't realize it yet.

No, I am not a megalomanic. At least I don't think so. However, I do think it is wise to be cautious when discussing these things.

From our paltry mortal coil down here in the dregs of Malkuth, "annihilation of the ego" is, course, a pale and undescriptive term, but to a great extent it is the best we can devise. Strictly speaking, there isn't any union with Keter, as all is inside the primordial mind anyhow, and like you said we are all fingers and limbs of the unity. As far as we are concerned, annihilation of ego is what it is, simply because we lack the imaginative capacity of wrapping our minds around being both apart and a part. It isn't pleasant to think we are all figments of a greater imagination, but there it is. The universe isn't big, it is a minute point, a speck of dust, so even if you are vaporized, there isn't very far to go.

For all I know, I might be the lackluster protagonist in a weak novel with a dull plot and flat, uninteresting characters. Or the book is about you, and I'm the supporting character.

The dizzying implications of the above are, I believe, one of the reasons why traditionally Kabballah is taught only to students of the Torah over the age of forty after many years of study, and only if they are married and have had children. You need earthly connections before losing yourself in something so nihilistic. Like Thelemites, Rabbis probably attracted their share of nut jobs, too. :)
 

Zephyros

I just thought of another answer to the post title question;

The Ace of Wands.

To be bold I will actually say T.W. comes from one of the wands in the 2 of wands and HGA comes from the other wand in the two of wands (and they are crossed).

It is... an answer... that's true. But far too abstract to be useful even as a symbol, no offence. The Ace of Wands is the only Tarot card there is, all the rest are merely elaborations on an idea. A one-card Tarot deck would be easy to carry around. :)
 

yogiman

If I may, I think that equating Thelema with the perception of American consumerist hedonism is a completely unreasonable way to look at it, not least because it shows misperception on both sides.

:confused:
 

ravenest

It is... an answer... that's true. But far too abstract to be useful even as a symbol, no offence. The Ace of Wands is the only Tarot card there is, all the rest are merely elaborations on an idea. A one-card Tarot deck would be easy to carry around. :)

Yep AN answer ...

BUT

:( awwww , I thought it was a good one considering the depth of the Vajra symbolism and what we are discussing here ;

Maybe one can’t get it until one studies the symbolism of Vajra and the related books (like in the Thelemic stuff / Magick / Thoth tarot ) ?

But the ‘Old Boy’ did ‘stick it in’ the deck … in that place, for a reason you know 

I can see a map emerging that Crowley outlined in a certain manner, but nowhere did he offer the detailed cosmology like the Buddhists did ; maybe that is why he studied (and encouraged) us to study) Buddhism ?

{ Warning: avoid reading if getting bored by obscure ravenest linked symbolism }

“Vajra (Devanagari: वज्र; Chinese: 金剛 jīngāng; Korean: 금강저 geumgangjeo; Tibetan: རྡོ་རྗེ། dorje; Dzongkha (Bhutan): dorji; Japanese: 金剛杵 kongōsho) is a Sanskrit word meaning both thunderbolt and diamond.

“ … it is a symbolic ritual object that symbolizes both the properties of a diamond (indestructibility) and a thunderbolt (irresistible force).

“ The earliest mention of the Vajra is in the Rigveda, a part of four Vedas. It is described as the weapon of Indra, the god of heaven and the chief deity of the Rigvedic pantheon. Indra is described as using the Vajra to kill sinners and ignorant persons. The Rigveda states that the weapon was made for Indra by Tvastar, the maker of divine instruments.

“ In Buddhism the vajra is the symbol of Vajrayana, one of the three major branches of Buddhism. Vajrayana is translated as "Thunderbolt Way" or "Diamond Way" and can imply the thunderbolt experience of Buddhist enlightenment or bodhi. It also implies indestructibility, just as diamonds are harder than other gemstones.

In the tantric traditions of Buddhism, the vajra is a symbol for the nature of reality, or sunyata, indicating endless creativity, potency, and skillful activity.” (IMO obvious expressions of the True Will. )

“ The practice of prefixing terms, names, places, and so on by vajra represents the conscious attempt to recognize the transcendental aspect of all phenomena; it became part of the process of "sacramentalizing" the activities of the spiritual practitioner and encouraged him to engage all his psychophysical energies in the spiritual life.

Some components which make up the Vajra “ … One represents the phenomenal world (or in Buddhist terms Samsara), the other represents the noumenal world (or Nirvana). This is one of the fundamental dichotomies which are perceived by the unenlightened. The physical manifestation of the vajra, also called dorje in this context, is the male organ.” And “ … made up of two or more animals, often representing the union of opposites, (or a harmonisation of qualities that transcend our usual experience) “ … like the Art card.

“There is an elaborate system of correspondences between the five elements of the noumenal side of the vajra, and the phenomenal side.”


Poison : Wisdom : Buddha

Desire: wisdom of individuality- discriminating wisdom :Amitabha
Anger/ hatred : mirror-like wisdom :Akshobhya
delusion :reality wisdom :Vairocana
greed/ pride : wisdom of equanimity: Ratnasambhava
envy: all-accomplishing wisdom :Amoghasiddhi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajra
 

ravenest


Then back track and try again.

Strange. This really goes against the tenet of spirituality. Don't fool me. Enlarging yourself means inflating your ego.

It is good to be realistic about your shortcomings, and to be humble towards the higher self within other people.

IT could appear that way from without the circle. I do believe however closrapexa is comprehending a wider range of human possibilities OTHER than ego. For example Kabbalah has 'levels of the soul' (what does Christianity have ... a soul), the ancient Egyptians had more than a dozen concepts or levels of the soul, regarding self their are psychological models ,,, even ones being invented right now (like the unconscious) and ... speaking of ego ... there is the fantastic ravenest adapted Tree of Life Psychological/Astrological Tree (that unlike your normal Tree of Life can be 'dialed' in to a specific individuals psychology via their natal astrology).

That is what it means to 'enlarge the self' in Hermetics.

In the non hermetic and perhaps New Age world (where much is interpreted on the level of ego alone) it may relate to what you say ... but we are talking about a different world here.

And IMO closrapexa isn't a being a fooler or a tricskster ... he is actualu being a Bhodhisatva ie. someone who, out of egoless compassion for the less fortunate, puts his spiritual development (and thread topic) aside to assist those who are struggling on the path.

All I can do is offer you a tanka;

http://readingsbyyerevan.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/wheelofexistence1.jpg?w=316&h=455
 

yogiman

Then back track and try again.

What I mean to say, is, that when I accuse someone, I at least do it rightly.


IT could appear that way from without the circle. I do believe however closrapexa is comprehending a wider range of human possibilities OTHER than ego.

In that case, I hope you (both) are not fooling yourself.


And thanks for the lightning flash.