Why no Jesus?

[Alta]

Hi re-pete-a,

And thank you for putting forward some ideas and being prepared to discuss them. Please do not think I am closed to new ideas, nor others here. The reaction was only puzzlement, not hostility. When a poster wants to throw out a new idea, a little background as to how it came to be is helpful to allow conversation and further discussion.

We all experience Fool moments and they are invariably good for us. I hope that everyone has at least a streak of the true innocent in them to allow new ideas and pathways to be at least checked out.

Marion

 

[Sophie]

I think that maybe you used the wrong word. There were CARDS before christ. They were not Tarot cards. And yep, the chinese were there too.

Actually, I think it more likely that there was TAROT before Christ rather than CARDS. That's because there was no paper to make the cards, including in China. On the other hand, there were images, and these images, which have evolved of course and taken on specific cultural garb, we might call Tarot (or proto-Tarot if we want to be pedantic). Probably many of them were present in Ancient Phoenicia, Mesopotamia and Egypt, if we accept that the Major Arcana present archetypes of human condition and learning that have been around a long time. I don't have any opinion on whether these images contain hidden codes and such occult material, because I have really no idea. The Tarot we are more familiar with grew out of Medieval imagery and neo-platonic Christian ideas, but that's not to say that the basic images of our human journey hadn't been represented thousands of years before. In fact, we know for sure that many of them had.

Thanks for the recommendation of the book, Re-pete-a - I'd never heard of it, and it sounds interesting. I agree that with any kind of mystical or occult literature, it is less the facts than the experience that matters. Nobody's ever going to prove or disprove Julian of Norwich's visions - so why try and pull apart this modern spiritual explorer? I think he does call his book a Fool's Journey, which implies we have to approach it with the eyes and heart of the Fool as well, as you and Marion say.

 

[re-pete-a]

book 'im

the book funnily enough has just returned to me ,I flipped it open, what hit my eyes was" Hermetic lore" people dancing depicted spirits that had found freedom ,sleepers depicted those that hadn't awakened to the spirit/astral.these were stone "cuts". The next bit stated (the text that caught my eye) all that is necessary for the spirit to enter and do its work is commitment,all on this site are committed,if that statement is fiction or part fiction give me the fools dream any day .
________
FIX PS3

 

[northsea]

May be the sun card has a baby Jesus? Just a conjecture.

... also, the halo around the Hanged Man's head.

 

[ArcanoMáximo]

I was just curious about something...

I understand Waite was a Catholic. Why then, did he not include an image of Jesus in his deck?

Actually he did according to the 4 Swords.
There he is, Jesus himself, raising Lazarus from dead,
one of the biggest miracles He did, at least to me,
and surely to Waite too I guess by his choice for the card!!!
Perhaps do you think that isn't Jesus?

 

[Abrac]

In his writings he regularly put down organized religion, looking for the mystical truth that lay behind all the great world religions.

Agreed Mary. He was influenced more by Rosicrucianism than by Catholicism.

 

[Psiweapon]

I'm certainly glad there ISN'T any jesus in my tarot deck.

Actually he did according to the 4 Swords.
There he is, Jesus himself, raising Lazarus from dead,
one of the biggest miracles He did, at least to me,
and surely to Waite too I guess by his choice for the card!!!
Perhaps do you think that isn't Jesus?

That's a christian figure for sure, but with that level of definition it could be anything, a depiction of jesus, mary, a generic saint, or whatever... I'll go with the "generic saint" interpretation unless the "PAX" written in the halo is an exclusive attribute of jesus; I don't think that anyone drawing a rendition of jesus would do so unambiguously, plus, yanno, JESUS STYLES HIMSELF A BEARD.

I don't know how can you identify the lil character to the right as Lazarus or the action portrayed as his resurrection, but of course, interpretating tarot cards is somewhat like those "write your own adventure" book =P

 

[ArcanoMáximo]

Hi Psiweapon!
Just some thoughts...

JESUS STYLES HIMSELF A BEARD.

I understand but
How do you know it?
That's not the version from de III -IV centuries.
The one with barbe has similarity with those of Zeus or Jupiter father of the pagan God and protector of the Roman Empire.
Is just by Jewish custom believed that Jesus had beard.
But there is not some good source fot that.
Once it began to be represented with the long hair and with beard, these images began to to be accepted as their original physical aspect,
but perhaps that wasn't a trusty version for Waite or Pamela.
Why? Maybe there is some more there...

... but of course, interpretating tarot cards is somewhat like those "write your own adventure" book =P

I agree
btw I have no much time for a proper web search for a former image right now but here I attach a pic the same...

 

[CheesyChi]

Interesting reading this!!!

I always see the Ace of Cups as symbolic of Jesus but being a former Catholic I tend to see the Christian (clear) overtones in this deck..to me the Ace of Cups represents a gift from God thus the holy communion which in Catholic beliefs is the body of Christ.

Dove, Holy spirit,,water. possibly meaning baptism etc,,or cleansing.,,and the hand of God reaching out from the clouds..but that's my own bias and remaining connection to the Church which I can't seem to shake...LOL not saying that in a bad way.

Also as far as I have read,,the RCC does not view the Tarot as evil as much as it views it as something people can get 'duped' into..like something phonies or con artists use to get money fro people.
hmmmm