Ross G Caldwell
Ross G Caldwell said:
Answer: the Abbey is called "Abbaye St. Pierre de Moissac" -
http://www.frenchcom.com/moissac/sirgant1.htm
Ross
XVI - La Maison Diev
Answer: the Abbey is called "Abbaye St. Pierre de Moissac" -
http://www.frenchcom.com/moissac/sirgant1.htm
Ross
Namadev
Hi Ross,
Yeah!
I was already "searching" for this "enigmatic" church of St Pierre: nothing found.
Alain
Yeah!
I was already "searching" for this "enigmatic" church of St Pierre: nothing found.
Alain
Namadev
Click on full size to see better the "scene".
I studied closely this "image" : ther is a "door" to enter into the Tower (the idea would be that that sacred family took "refuge" into the Tower)-.
When I invited Philippe Camoin to see this relief, we found that this idea of a "door" into which one could enter the tower had been *intuitively* "drawned" on the restaured TdM of Camoin Jodorowsky...
Alain
I studied closely this "image" : ther is a "door" to enter into the Tower (the idea would be that that sacred family took "refuge" into the Tower)-.
When I invited Philippe Camoin to see this relief, we found that this idea of a "door" into which one could enter the tower had been *intuitively* "drawned" on the restaured TdM of Camoin Jodorowsky...
Alain
Namadev
St Michel=Justice
Hi,
Interesting also to notice that the position of La Justicia as the 20th, after Lo Agngelo and before El Mondo (cioë Dio Padre) is clearly explained if we see the Celestal Justice presided by St Mickael ("St Michel présidant à la pesée des âmes").
Alain
Hi,
Interesting also to notice that the position of La Justicia as the 20th, after Lo Agngelo and before El Mondo (cioë Dio Padre) is clearly explained if we see the Celestal Justice presided by St Mickael ("St Michel présidant à la pesée des âmes").
Alain
Namadev
St Mickael=La Justicia=XXth
Link :
http://architecture.relig.free.fr/jugement.htm
[St Michel et la balance de Justice pour la pesée des âmes lors du Jugement dernier]
Alain
Link :
http://architecture.relig.free.fr/jugement.htm
[St Michel et la balance de Justice pour la pesée des âmes lors du Jugement dernier]
Alain
jmd
Thanks for the cross-references. Though I had in my folder that the previously linked image was from Moissac, I had not included it in the reduced caption.
In a much earlier post, I added an image which I had earlier scanned, and mentioned that it came from not Rheims, as mentioned by Gettings, but Amiens.
For those who want an even clearer image, may I suggest checking the site on Amiens Cathedral, and specifically, the images from the Egyptian flight scene. The zoomed out version gives the context on the hieroglyphs...
Thanks also for the further reference to infancy Gospels and to St Aphrodise. In other places, including in rather succinct comments I made for my Tower card, I also made mention of a different Infancy Gospel, though I mentioned the one by pseudo-Matthew.
Though especially images of the Last Judgement, Christ in Ascension, and various representations with some similarity to Tarot ones are also regularly found on church and Cathedral carvings, it really has been, for myself, the Tower which is striking.
In a much earlier post, I added an image which I had earlier scanned, and mentioned that it came from not Rheims, as mentioned by Gettings, but Amiens.
For those who want an even clearer image, may I suggest checking the site on Amiens Cathedral, and specifically, the images from the Egyptian flight scene. The zoomed out version gives the context on the hieroglyphs...
Thanks also for the further reference to infancy Gospels and to St Aphrodise. In other places, including in rather succinct comments I made for my Tower card, I also made mention of a different Infancy Gospel, though I mentioned the one by pseudo-Matthew.
Though especially images of the Last Judgement, Christ in Ascension, and various representations with some similarity to Tarot ones are also regularly found on church and Cathedral carvings, it really has been, for myself, the Tower which is striking.
Flornoy
Greetings Jean-Michel, Alain , Ross
Here's a link to very few "tarot-oriented" sculptures from Chartres and Amiens. Force is the most convincing.
http://letarot.com/pages/66-chartres.html
Any others found would enrich this sparse fund, but it seems part of the difficulty is that the Sacred has little to do with religion, and expressions of this "pagan" force were already being re-channeled into the mainline Christian iconogtraphy.
best wishes
JC Flornoy
Here's a link to very few "tarot-oriented" sculptures from Chartres and Amiens. Force is the most convincing.
http://letarot.com/pages/66-chartres.html
Any others found would enrich this sparse fund, but it seems part of the difficulty is that the Sacred has little to do with religion, and expressions of this "pagan" force were already being re-channeled into the mainline Christian iconogtraphy.
best wishes
JC Flornoy
Namadev
Nice resolution, Jean-Claude!
Best regards
Alain
Best regards
Alain
jmd
In the thread in the Historical section on Huguenots, Jews, French expulsion and the Marseille sequence, I make mention of an image upon a coin (a 'Méreau', plural 'Méreux') used by Huguenots to permit them to access communion.
Initially, this was distributed to those 'deserving' by their minister, but progressively also became an emblem of recognition.
What is interesting is that one side of the coin shows a image of a shepherd very similar to the one adopted on the Vieville deck for this card.
Initially, this was distributed to those 'deserving' by their minister, but progressively also became an emblem of recognition.
What is interesting is that one side of the coin shows a image of a shepherd very similar to the one adopted on the Vieville deck for this card.
Attachments
Yatima
There is a curious iconographical connection between the Tower and the Star (and the Angel, for that matter) within the apocalyptic tradition worth mentioning here, but also relating to the questions raised in the "Star, Moon, Sun"-thread.
In the apocalyptic depiction of the 5th trombone in Rev 9:1-5, we often see a well that is struck by a Star, opening inferno, relieving the daemons to haunt men for torture (not death). E.g., very nicely illustrated in the Beatus-commentary of San Andres de Arroyo, 13th century (Paris, BN, Ms. NAL 2290, fol. 96v) where, while an Angel blows the Trumpet, a singular Star falls from Heaven with Sun and Stars (no Moon) in a fortified and at the roof open well.
In the Apocalypse-manuscript, North West France, 9th century (Valenciennes, Bibl. Mun., Ms. 99, fol 18r.) regarding the depiction, however, we find a peculiar and (as far as I have seen) singular illustration of this event, that is, the 5th trombone and its consequences in Rev 9:1-5.
It shows (a) a Tower instead of the often depicted well, (b) Stars like fire-balls fallen from heaven and hitting the tower at its "crown" instead of the often seen "singular" star falling into the well, (c) the Tower set on fire with thick smoke coming out of its head, (d) the Tower remaining whole except its top, (e) a "dome"-like top of the Tower like a crown, falling of the Tower to the left as in the TdM-like Tarots, and (f) finally the Angel with the Trumpet initiating this event.
It belongs to a tradition of illustrations of the apocalyptic events that can be seen as combining the last six trumps of the Tarot, whereby the three cosmological subjects was an inner circle and Tower-Angel was an outer circle. I have elaborated this connection and some references in the "Star-Moon-Sun" thread recently.
However, while these the last six trumps enclosing imaginary relates to Rev 6, the illustration here relates to Rev 9; so it manifests a different "event" in the projected apocalyptic order.
Nonetheless, (a) it combines Tower and Star, which in any tarot order have never been departed from another or have changed their position to one another, and (b) it precisely depicts the outer circle of Tower (with Star) and Angel with Trumpet.
Yatima
In the apocalyptic depiction of the 5th trombone in Rev 9:1-5, we often see a well that is struck by a Star, opening inferno, relieving the daemons to haunt men for torture (not death). E.g., very nicely illustrated in the Beatus-commentary of San Andres de Arroyo, 13th century (Paris, BN, Ms. NAL 2290, fol. 96v) where, while an Angel blows the Trumpet, a singular Star falls from Heaven with Sun and Stars (no Moon) in a fortified and at the roof open well.
In the Apocalypse-manuscript, North West France, 9th century (Valenciennes, Bibl. Mun., Ms. 99, fol 18r.) regarding the depiction, however, we find a peculiar and (as far as I have seen) singular illustration of this event, that is, the 5th trombone and its consequences in Rev 9:1-5.
It shows (a) a Tower instead of the often depicted well, (b) Stars like fire-balls fallen from heaven and hitting the tower at its "crown" instead of the often seen "singular" star falling into the well, (c) the Tower set on fire with thick smoke coming out of its head, (d) the Tower remaining whole except its top, (e) a "dome"-like top of the Tower like a crown, falling of the Tower to the left as in the TdM-like Tarots, and (f) finally the Angel with the Trumpet initiating this event.
It belongs to a tradition of illustrations of the apocalyptic events that can be seen as combining the last six trumps of the Tarot, whereby the three cosmological subjects was an inner circle and Tower-Angel was an outer circle. I have elaborated this connection and some references in the "Star-Moon-Sun" thread recently.
However, while these the last six trumps enclosing imaginary relates to Rev 6, the illustration here relates to Rev 9; so it manifests a different "event" in the projected apocalyptic order.
Nonetheless, (a) it combines Tower and Star, which in any tarot order have never been departed from another or have changed their position to one another, and (b) it precisely depicts the outer circle of Tower (with Star) and Angel with Trumpet.
Yatima
