Things we can do

[DoctorArcanus]

Thanks to the recent thread started by Rosanne, I realized how interesting it would be to explore new approaches and ideas for Historical Research. I post here a few of my reflections. I hope you will help me understand what of this makes sense, what could be done in Historical Research, would should be done in other areas of ATF, what could be done elsewhere, e.g. on http://www.tarotpedia.com/

Here are a few ideas. What do you think? More ideas?

* Hiconography study group on a single deck. Card by card, texts and images are discussed, in order to investigate the origin and meaning of the deck. Candidates: Mantegna, Mitelli, various Visconti, Sola Busca, Vacchetta, RWS, Toth...actually any deck. Ross has surprised me many time, e.g. suggesting analogies between Giotto and the Visconti Sforza Papesse, or Botticelli and Sola Busca's Ipeo.

* Hiconography study group on a single work of art. For instance, the Piero Della Francesca Triumph submitted by dminoz. A good example of what can be achieved is an article about a XII Century bible recently proposed by Robert Le Pendu. The different aspects of the image under study are connected to images of cards from different decks.

* Hiconography study group on a complex work of art. For instance, alchemical visual texts such as "Splendor Solis" or "Mutus Liber" of the beautiful "De Sphera" by Cristoforo De Predis. We can also consider texts which "describe" images, such as "De genealogia deorum gentilium" (Petrarca) or "De umbris idearum" (Giordano Bruno) or Picatrix. Image by image, page by page, or also in a less structured way, analogies with tarot images are explored.

* Recreation of an ancient tarot deck. Kat Black has given to us all an example of how to use ancient images to deepen our understanding of tarot. We could do the same, by jointly producing our own Visconti Sforza, or Mantegna. Of course, Boiardo's deck would be wonderful for this, since we have an excellant description of the deck, but just a few images (some of which have been published by Huck on http://trionfi.com/0/j/d/boiardo/ . We could jointly create a new Boiardo, or a new Mantegna.

* Creation of a new deck based on a complex ancient graphical source. For instance, a Splendor Solis deck, a Cesare Ripa deck, a Minerva Britanna deck, a "De mulieribus Illustribus" deck....

* Story telling about a single deck. The story of the deck would be an interesting subject in many cases. Often we
know little, but we can just imagine how to make a meaningful story out of the little we know. Among the candidates, are the usual Visconti, SolaBusca, Mantegna, Mitelli ....

* Story telling about the story told by a specific deck. I have made an attempt of this kind about the majors of Sola Busca, which (possibly) tell the tale of the fall of the Roman Republic. The same could be done, for instance, elaborating the structure proposed by Ross for the 21 majors (10+1+10 with Fortune at the center).

Marco

 

[jmd]

Thanks for these suggestions, DoctorArcanus - they each would be fantastic to take up at various times!

Let me go through some of these and also add to the suggestion, for some of course have either already been started, or may be better suited to a Forum other than the History one per se.

• Iconographical study of a particular deck

Many of these have already begun, and there are now specific areas for this to occur for the Waite-Smith and the Crowley-Harris 'Thoth'.

The Marseille, Visconti, and Mantegna have also their own threads in the Marseille and other early decks section - and addition to existing threads would only add to a deepening of the study.

• Work of art and Tarot relation

The example you give is by Eguchi Koretaka, not Robert, by the way (though Robert - Le Pendu has done something similar with a variety of posts and Giotto and others).

This is an area that also has various threads opened - usually with few posts, though read by many.

What is superb about this is reading what others come up with as possible relation. Of course, usually, there is not much that can be said, hence the reason for the relative small number of posts: once it has been posted, the thread may slowly become lost amidst many others.

Still, this should not prevent additional works to be presented.

• 'Complex' works of art and text

Here is where posts do become at times difficult.

For example, De Sphera has been mentioned very early on by both Ross and myself in various threads as it may be seen as relevant to Tarot imagery - but of course the book itself deals with other than Tarot, and so the complex of book (even if only its images) is removed from Tarot per se.

Still, it would indeed be great to see more work on this.

Likewise, texts (or series or complexes of images) on alchemy are removed from Tarot per se, yet individual images may find numerous iconographic relation (example: Mary the Jewess and Temperance).

Some of this may indeed be best placed in the Historical section, others in threads pertinent to the discussion (a Sola Busca card thread, or a Marseille card thread, etc).

Other discussions may perhaps also better be placed in the Talking Tarot section - this is where those amongst us who perhaps spend more time in the History section may view such a move as unfortunate. Aeclectic as a whole, however, has to be considered when posting on Aeclectic.

As such, creation of a deck has its own section, and story-telling from a deck is unlikely to remain in this area, unless specific circumstances make it seem best placed here when considering Aeclectic as a whole.

 

[geomancer]

DoctorArcanus,

I was interested in your list of suggested study topics. I was particularly intrigued by you choice of "Triumph" by della Francesca. Could you please give a brief explanation (apart from the chariot aspect) as to why you chose this piece?

I have been doing research based on the Visconti-Sforza deck and its associated geometry and believe that della Francesca was the second artist involved after Bembo. As a consequence I have found a high degree of (esoteric) geometry within della Francesca's works, in particular the Triumphs and the portraits on the opposite sides of the panels. Within these works, della Francesca demonstrates an extension on the knowledge exhibited by Bembo.

I am not a tarot reader but am very interested in the iconography and the historical aspects of tarot and esoteric societies, so any information from a tarot aspect would be grateful.

 

[DoctorArcanus]

thank you both

I have read many times JMD's kind and informative reply. I agree with the suggestions about how to do things about historical research.

I think there is a minor problem with the organization of data (e.g. where should I post a note on Mantegna Tarot iconography? there are many possible threads) but this is normal for a forum. The only solution is using search with patience and attention.
I think http://www.tarotpedia.com/ can provide a good solution for some projects that seem too complex to bring on in a forum.

Something I would like to understand better is what are people interested in? Is there anything I can do to involve more people in tarot history?
I hope to receive more suggestions....

I was interested in your list of suggested study topics. I was particularly intrigued by you choice of "Triumph" by della Francesca. Could you please give a brief explanation (apart from the chariot aspect) as to why you chose this piece?

I have been doing research based on the Visconti-Sforza deck and its associated geometry and believe that della Francesca was the second artist involved after Bembo. As a consequence I have found a high degree of (esoteric) geometry within della Francesca's works, in particular the Triumphs and the portraits on the opposite sides of the panels. Within these works, della Francesca demonstrates an extension on the knowledge exhibited by Bembo.

I am not a tarot reader but am very interested in the iconography and the historical aspects of tarot and esoteric societies, so any information from a tarot aspect would be grateful.

Geomancer, thank you for pointing out both a specific item that interests you (the Della Francesca triumph) and a general area in which we can work together (iconography and geometry). Wonderful topics indeed

About Piero, our discussion is here:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=54623&page=3
Please post your comments in that thread, so we can continue the ongoing dialog about the painting.
I think Dminoz thought this image is interesting because it represents a Triumph, and it contains a number of tarot like allegories (the chariot, the virtues, fame/victory, cupid...).

Marco

 

[catlin]

Hi Marco,
What great suggestions!!!

I have to admit I've just started dipping into tarot history.

 

[DoctorArcanus]

Catlin, I am glad you find these few suggestions interesting
I am sure you have more ideas.....don't be shy!

If you want, be specific and give a few examples of what you would like to do. Or just provide a general idea of the kind of interaction and activity that you think more promising in the area of Historical Research. I think we need some help here.

Marco

 

[catlin]

@ Marco: as I am still a novice to this topic, please give me a couple of days to get some ideas. Thanks.