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What's your opinion . . .

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 11 Sep 2001, and now archived in the Forum Library.



JC  11 Sep 2001 
. . . of Loki? I've read alot of different stuff on the net, and I'm trying to get a copy of Dumezil's book. 


Rhiannon  13 Sep 2001 
One big, bad scary dude. Killed his brother. Not a nice guy. God of the sea wasn't he? Part of the (can't think of the D word for the Celtic gods)? Stretching my brain to remember... want to post some stuff to refresh it?

Rhiannon :) 


morgane  15 Sep 2001 
Is it Tuatha de Danaan you were looking for?
I'm not good in deististics at all but I thought I saw Loki as one of the Norse gods. I'm pretty sure he's mentioned in Wagner's trilogy.... 


Rhiannon  15 Sep 2001 
Yes! Thank you Morgane! Old age is starting to creep in..... can't remember anything anymore. Ummm, what were we talking about again?

Rhiannon :) 


Kiama  18 Sep 2001 
Maybe your talking of a different Loki, but I thought he was a Norse God. He managed to kill the nicest God, Baldur, he gave birth to an eight legged horse, and had sex with basically every single God and Goddess from the Vanir and Aesir. he was part Frost Giant, and his son was the wolf, Fenrir.

Anyway, I think Loki is great: Very clever indeed. Although he is evil, he loves a good joke, and some of the stuff he does just makes me laugh. He also doesn't bother making excuses for his scummy ways. He's got guts, although he's creepy and slimy and utter nastiness.

Kiama 


JC  18 Sep 2001 
Rhi- Mannanon Mac Lir is the Irish Celtic god of the sea. Dylan is his Welsh counterpart. Loki is the Norse Trickster God.

Kiama - there seems to be some disagreement as to wether Loki actually DID kill Balder. From what I understand, that version of the myth appears only in Snorri Surrelson(sp?)'s Prose Edda. The only other *Scandinavivan* reference for Balder is a Danish myth in which Holdr kills him on his on over Nanna.

Which is why I asked in the first place: There's absolutely NO consensus on this guy! After going through all the usual research channels, the best statement I could find went somthing like this "A minor Norse deity without whom the whole show would never happen." How minor *is* that?!

I don't have the address, but if anyone else is interested in Loki (or just enjoys hearing a story about the KKK getting trumped), try to find Loki: A Paen in Progress through Yahoo. She has a lot of links to support her veiw. 


Rhiannon  18 Sep 2001 
You'll all have to forgive me if I get my gods and goddesses mixed up. You mix in too much fiction with too many myths and you get a really creative, but not at all accurate, jumble. Between C.S. Lewis, Asa Drake and others I haven't got a jotun's chance in Hades! Thanks for setting me straight.

Kiama: I love your take on Loki. You gotta respect a guy who's that ballsy, right?

Rhiannon :) 


JC  18 Sep 2001 
Don't worry about it, Kiama. I've read way too much mythology in the past two weeks myself. Which reminds me of the next thread I want to start . . .

Have either of you, I dunno how to phrase this, *experienced* Loki in your lives, or had a moment which, upon reflection, seemed a bit
Loki-ish? I can't find many Asatruar out my way to ask. 


Kiama  19 Sep 2001 
Well, I kinda experienced Loki a while back when I was exploring Chaos. I also have an Asatruar friend over in Germany, so I'll write to him and see what he says.

Kiama

PS- It may be a while before I get a reply, so bear with me 


JC  24 Sep 2001 
Thank you, Kiama, in advance.

I don't really know how my attention focused on Loki. I was reading about how many pagans and Wiccans equated the Hanged Man with Odin, and one night I just remembered "Oh, there's a really great picture of Loki in one of my Sandman comics." So I went and dug it out. It seems I've exhausted all four major bookstores in my town since then, as well as the 'net, in my search for more info. And things have been getting a bit . . . oddish . . . inside me lately. Like when I was going through my morning routine and suddenly started thinking about a pendant I could make - a flame shape with tiny runes inscribed on the back. (The closest I come to wearing jewelry of any kind is a watch from Target.)

Any info your Deutsh friend could give me might be helpful. 


Alleira  05 Oct 2001 
JC,
Is there anything in particular you wanted to know about Loki? Or were you just inquiring our own feelings on Loki?

I've studied the runes for many years now. My interest has included Norse mythology as well. Loki is both an interesting God and a loathesome God. Both friend and foe. He also seems to have the most excellent memory of all the Gods lol. Remembering how Odin had called him 'brother' and all the little dirty deeds that the Aesir and Vanir did. In some ways, he's no dirtier than the rest of them. Though promiscuous with everything in living creation, he never once uh... got busy with things for greedy reasons. For instance in the story of "The Necklace of the Brisings", despite the awesome power of that necklace- Freya uses her body to get that necklace. Frey himself in other stories has used blackmail to get what he wants. Odin? When we get into the "Lay of Loddfafnir" we begin to talk about some of the troubles with getting too busy with all woman. :)

But how do I feel about Loki? Love him and hate him. Sometimes he makes me laugh, other times I'd like to ring his neck myself. He's a very interesting character. His duality of both male and female, it seems he has no problems expressing either side. So in some ways he's like an idealic balance of the male female energies. Other times, he's the starter of Ragnarok. ;)

Alleira 


JC  06 Oct 2001 
I guess I'm looking for anything. Like I said, I've exhausted most of the resources available to me. And not many deal with what's happening around me right now.

Two weeks ago (Saturday the 22nd), I hit my toe on a table in my school's color darkroom. Unlike B&W darkrooms, color labs are completely dark, because the paper is sensitive to any color of light. Now, the legs on this particular table are made of four L-bars, long strips of 3mm- or 1/8 inch-thick metal that's been folded down the center lengthwise. So when I kicked this table, I actually rammed my toe into a 3mm metal strip. To top that off, I hit it at exactly the right angle to cause a split halfway down the nail. Much shouting ensued, followed by bleeding, swelling and hobbling to the bathroom to rinse off my toe.

Which was still swollen Sunday and Monday. I work as carry-out at a local grocery store, so I couldn't go to work those two days as I had trouble walking. Now my store is having me spend $50 (or more) to get a doctor's note telling them the swelling has gone down enough for me to work.

*However*, I had class all day Tuesday and had to work on my portfolio all day Wednesday, because I had to catch a 5am flight to Boston Thursday morning for a national portfolio review and interviews with three institutes in that area (causing me to miss three more days of work - Friday, and another Sunday and Monday). So I got back Thursday night at 10pm, still with no time to get a doctor's note. And, since I had no note, I was told not to come in Friday morning.

I honestly hate this job. I like my coworkers and the customers, and I have less of a problem with our managers than other people. But there's just some intangible thing hanging in the air. The e'spirit de core (sp?) is not worth two craps. (That last sentence actually felt good to type!)
My reason for staying is the company's tuition reimbursement program - you average 22 hours a week for a semester or quarter, and the company will reward you up to $1,500, depending on your grades. I've put my availability down as 3 ten-hour shifts week, and since we get an unpaid lunch that *would* be 27 hours a week. But they never schedule me for enough time. They can't; they can't just pay me to be there when they don't need me.

So now I have the choice of coming in to work for more hours so I can average 22 hours a week by the end of November, thus sacrificing my homework time *and* the time I will need to work on the suggestions I recieved regarding my portfolio, which has to be finished by November 1st. Or just quitting my job and taking October off to get my academic stuff done.

I obviously prefer the later. So I'm finally getting out of a situation I hate, because I stubbed my toe. It just seems so damned improbable; I've been walking around that table with no problem for three years until this!

But - about three days before any of this happened, I had a not-quite-a dream in which Loki told me he was going to prove to me that he was here. Are stubbed toes and split nails his usual modus operandi? 


JC  06 Oct 2001 
[quote]Alleira (06 Oct, 2001 11:27):
JC,
Is there anything in particular you wanted to know about Loki? Or were you just inquiring our own feelings on Loki?

- I don't really know where to start . . .

I've studied the runes for many years now. My interest has included Norse mythology as well. Loki is both an interesting God and a loathesome God. Both friend and foe. He also seems to have the most excellent memory of all the Gods lol.
Remembering how Odin had called him 'brother' and all the little dirty deeds that the Aesir and Vanir did.

- Yes! The Lokasenna rocks!

In some ways, he's no dirtier than the rest of them. Though promiscuous with everything in living creation, he never once uh... got busy with things for greedy reasons. For instance in the story of "The Necklace of the Brisings", despite the awesome power of that necklace- Freya uses her body to get that necklace. Frey himself in other stories has used blackmail to get what he wants. Odin? When we get into the "Lay of Loddfafnir" we begin to talk about some of the troubles with getting too busy with all woman. :)

-These would *all* be fun topics . . .

But how do I feel about Loki? Love him and hate him. Sometimes he makes me laugh, other times I'd like to ring his neck myself. He's a very interesting character. His duality of both male and female, it seems he has no problems expressing either side. So in some ways he's like an idealic balance of the male female energies. Other times, he's the starter of Ragnarok. ;)

- I have to disagree with that point. Like a *few* authors I've read, I don't think Ragnarok begins with Loki breaking his fetters, I think it begins much earlier. The authors I'm talking about hold Ragnarok to be the result of Loki's *binding*.

The best metaphor for this I can think of occurred when I was about 12. We were travelling through South Dakota during a heat wave (110 F), and left a six-pack of pop locked in the car during one of our stops. Soda pop is bottled just a degree or two above freezing (35 F). This allows for more carbon dioxide - the little bubbles - to be held in solution inside the can. Conversely, the hotter the liquid, the more carbon dioxide bubbles out of the soda. So we had six cans in our car that had been sealed (bound) at an extremely low temperature (pressure), but were now well above the boiling point. The only things that kept the pop from boiling were the force exerted on the liquid by the cans and the stillness of the car. (We have all shaken pop cans at some point in our lives. ;) ) A while after getting back in the car, we drove over a speed bump. And the cans began exploding :o !

We could have avoided all the trouble of cleaning the car if we'd just known to open the cans and release the pressure.

Um . . . what were we talking about? ;) 


Alleira  07 Oct 2001 
JC,
Honestly, you know I think that Loki would seriously find that funny. After all, in good 'humor' he cuts off Sigryn's hair. So... Stubbed toe? Sure! Especially with the severity. The swearing alone is worth the giggle. (Having done just this type thing before. Except I stubbed ALL 5 toes, and was in so much pain I didn't even notice that I broke half the nail split down the middle on my big toe. :o )

Perhaps also it's time for you to find your happiness. Some people believe that everything happens for a reason. I don't really feel it's always a matter of fate, as free will seems to take precendence over that. I know... some people are going to disagree with that. So I think that's another thread altogether! ;) Er... now where was I.... Oh yes! The stubbed toe has made you think hasn't it? (Yes there are lessons in everything. Even stubbed toes!) So maybe the right course is taking October off just like you said. Don't you just wish the message came in a better way? *grin* Like an email or something "JC... hi. Take October for Academics okay?-

Loki" Eh... but it just wouldn't have been as fun right?

Alleira


Quote:
JC (07 Oct, 2001 02:11):
I guess I'm looking for anything. Like I said, I've exhausted most of the resources available to me. And not many deal with what's happening around me right now.


So now I have the choice of coming in to work for more hours so I can average 22 hours a week by the end of November, thus sacrificing my homework time *and* the time I will need to work on the suggestions I recieved regarding my portfolio, which has to be finished by November 1st. Or just quitting my job and taking October off to get my academic stuff done.

I obviously prefer the later. So I'm finally getting out of a situation I hate, because I stubbed my toe. It just seems so damned improbable; I've been walking around that table with no problem for three years until this!

But - about three days before any of this happened, I had a not-quite-a dream in which Loki told me he was going to prove to me that he was here. Are stubbed toes and split nails his usual modus operandi?
 


Alleira  07 Oct 2001 
JC,
I don't know if I really feel that Loki's breaking of his bindings was the beginning of Ragnarok. If you look at his behavior long before this it deffinately had potential. The fact is everyone knew it was coming anyway. The death of Baldur seems to have been one of the bigger events in this. Symbolically it's like the death of all that is good. The only reason he was to remain Nifleheim was because the way Loki worked things to keep him there. After all with his own daughter there, what better way to keep the good God out of the way? Without Baldur, there was not complete purity in Asgard. In effect meaning that all that was negative in 'human' nature culminates. But who's left in the end? Baldur strangely enough. When good fights not so good (like a battle of the self with the self) the pure and the good seems to be left. Very much a progression of the human life. All our lives we fight what's inside. The good and the bad of the self creating inner turmoil. The last step in the cycle is the death of it all- blossoming into that which is pure and good. Every day is the eternal winter of Ragnarok.

Alleira

- I have to disagree with that point. Like a *few* authors I've read, I don't think Ragnarok begins with Loki breaking his fetters, I think it begins much earlier. The authors I'm talking about hold Ragnarok to be the result of Loki's *binding*. 


JC  08 Oct 2001 
Give me awhile to dig out my Trickster book. It's got some interesting ideas about Baldr.

In the meantime though, have you ever had anything (Okay, okay, sorry, Loki! Mea maxima culpa!) anyONE talk to you like that? The only other time I've been in a similar state of mind was during a controlled out-of-body experience when I was 19. It seriously frightened me and turned me off wicca. (Now somebody wants to know why I didn't tell him that. And reminding me to capitalize "him". Do any of you do that for your gods?) 


JC  09 Oct 2001 
Definitly the Fool and Magician. *Reversed* Emporer. I know somebody will bring up the Devil, but that feels more like Gullveig to me. 


The What's your opinion . . . thread was originally posted on 11 Sep 2001 in the Spirituality board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the threads in Spirituality, or read more archived threads.

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