KariRoad
Which is why I posted the quote from The Columbia Encyclopedia, precisely because it is limited in its scholarship. Let's hope none of us "believe" in it, or any mere book. Beliefs are a matter for a Spirituality Forum.Bernice said:
Is the Tarot Pre-Christian?
Melanchollic
KariRoad said:
Sorry, you've lost me. What's your point?
Scholars of playing card history consider the authority on tarot history to be Dummett's Game of Tarot. As of now, any discussion of tarot history begins with Dummett's conclusions, which hold, until some new evidence is put on the table. Ultimately, there is always an orthodox authority. You may choose to disbelieve it if you like, but no one will take you seriously unless you can show evidence backing your theories.
KariRoad
Thanks!
The Wikipedia Review > Sir Michael Dummett
http://wikipediareview.com/lofiversion/index.php?t26510.html
Now I see the light, and have my DUMMETT books on order (can't wait)
The Wikipedia Review > Sir Michael Dummett
http://wikipediareview.com/lofiversion/index.php?t26510.html
Now I see the light, and have my DUMMETT books on order (can't wait)
Moonbow
Glad to see you are looking in to Dummett's books KariRoad, though you may find some of them difficult/expensive (expecially the Game of Tarot). There is a host of information already here on Aeclectic so I would also suggest that you read, read, read these History forums.
Moonbow*
Moonbow*
KariRoad
OK. The argument usually goes, Tarot is Christian. If you ask is Tarot something other than Christian it gets rambled off into... is Tarot "PRE Christian".
Tarot, is UR Christian
Tarot is yes Christian
Tarot is non Christian
Tarot is pre-Christian
and, it is POST X-ian.
I never meant to ask "is Tarot pre-Christian" historialogically.
My presentation envisioned elements of parallel development.
Tarot, is UR Christian
Tarot is yes Christian
Tarot is non Christian
Tarot is pre-Christian
and, it is POST X-ian.
I never meant to ask "is Tarot pre-Christian" historialogically.
My presentation envisioned elements of parallel development.
conversus
Christian Neo-Platonism is to TdM as Capitalism is to Monopoly.
A certain sort of play may not require a conscious understanding of this relationship ; but an informed awareness of these world-views will bring new appreciation of the subtleties of either game.
CED
A certain sort of play may not require a conscious understanding of this relationship ; but an informed awareness of these world-views will bring new appreciation of the subtleties of either game.
CED
TarotCard
Please explain exactly how your post supports - or denies - the idea that the tarot is not pre-christian in origin.
TarotCard
so close......
For those of you who doubt a pre-Christian origin, do you know the pre-Christian doctrine enough to recognize it when you see it?
And what about the feast of the Epiphany? Is that pre-Christian feast? Was it celebrated before Christ? And if it was, where is its origin? Was the Epiphany and the Eucharist associated with God before Christ? Is so, why it is associated with Christ now?
Actually, it is amazing that the answers to the source of the tarot is listed right in this thread. Heliopolis has a lot to do with it. Can anyone tell me the Heliopolis doctrine? (yes this is a Sarah Palin question). Since we are dealing with pre-Christian doctrine experts, don't cheat by looking it up!
For those of you who doubt a pre-Christian origin, do you know the pre-Christian doctrine enough to recognize it when you see it?
And what about the feast of the Epiphany? Is that pre-Christian feast? Was it celebrated before Christ? And if it was, where is its origin? Was the Epiphany and the Eucharist associated with God before Christ? Is so, why it is associated with Christ now?
Actually, it is amazing that the answers to the source of the tarot is listed right in this thread. Heliopolis has a lot to do with it. Can anyone tell me the Heliopolis doctrine? (yes this is a Sarah Palin question). Since we are dealing with pre-Christian doctrine experts, don't cheat by looking it up!
Laura Borealis
Huck
You might not have noticed, but that post was made more than a year ago.
Yes, indeed.
Welcome to the Tarotforum, TarotCard ...
... you didn't chose the luckiest introduction for yourself. At ...http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=80781&page=3
... you left some questions about your intentions.
You seem to work on a Tarot book project, in which you wanna show, that "Tarot" or that what you understand with it or how you define it, is Pre-Christian.
http://digg.com/newsbar/topnews/archaeology_of_the_tarot
Just in the case, that this is so, and you desire to bring your ideas to discussion, why don't you open a new thread and show that, what you intend to show?
From your not-very-lucky introduction I assume, that you'll dismiss everything, what we're working here on in long articles (and actually I would assume, that you simply don't know in great detail, what we're working on; but maybe I'm wrong), as 'propaganda for the "invented here" philosophy' and instead you'll attempt to fill our minds with Pre-Christian objects, as for instance that, what you call 'Heliopolis doctrine'.
Okay, why not, the topic of this part of the Forum is "Historical Research (for Tarot)", and you interpret your Pre-Christian object as something "similar to Tarot" (at least I assume so), so you somehow have the right to show it up here ... and everybody else has the right to offer his/her critique.
That's a common condition here ... and this might be occasionally a difficult factor.
... from the announced book
Well, that's somehow a known scheme, used by various. I know at least 4 personally. Something "before Renaissance" has delivered that, what appeared then in the Tarot des Marseilles. Authors with this strategy avoid the troublesome renaissance with all its detail, taking the safe position "this I needn't to know for my topic, I just know the Tarot des Marseilles".
Is this similar with you and your ongoing book project? I just ask ... maybe you've made long studies about the period of Renaissance Tarot and you would impress us with knowledge about a lot of its details.
