bad deck?

[Debra]

I think it's a little silly to be "creeped out" by a little old man who, when you hear him on tape, sounds like someone's Scottish grandmother. We're not talking about Adolph Hitler here. And Caroline says she's been using this deck for a couple of years now and only lately has it been giving her sad readings, so that's hardly a ringing endorsement for the evil influence of Uncle Al haunting her from beyond.

The theory behind the Thoth deck is Dark Side all the way, and explicitly so. Ignoring what someone says about himself because he sounds somehow powerless and cute to your ears seems...a bit silly. That Scottish Grandmother (we've got at least one here I think) may frost your butt while you're laughing at her high voice and "funny" accent.

The Thoth deck is intended for, and celebratory of, pain.

My suggestion: Find a deck that speaks to your heart, and try that.

 

[Thirteen]

The theory behind the Thoth deck is Dark Side all the way, and explicitly so.

Really? I'm very interested. Please direct me to quotes and sources that indicate this.

Ignoring what someone says about himself because he sounds somehow powerless and cute to your ears seems...a bit silly. That Scottish Grandmother (we've got at least one here I think) may frost your butt while you're laughing at her high voice and "funny" accent.

I'm sorry, but I've read up on a lot of bad people in my time and Uncle Al was a piker by comparison. For example, shall we rate him up against Jack the Ripper?

And I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth. I never said that I "ignored" what Uncle Al said about himself because he sounded like a Scottish grandmother. I said that I ignored some of what he said because he was a notorious boaster and liar and loved being in the spotlight as the "wickedest" man in England and so would say just about anything to keep people talking about him

What I did say was that it was silly for someone to be creeped out by someone who, on a record, sounds like a Scottish Grandmother and I'll stick to that. If said person is talking like a Scottish Grandmother but holding a bloody chainsaw, I'll happily be creeped out by him. I don't recall that Uncle Al ever went out and murdered anyone. Avalanche story aside, how many bodies did he have under the floorboards?

My point is, in Al's case (and his deck's case), he only has as much scary power over you as you give him (and his deck). You can give him all the fear you wish--and were he alive he'd thank you for it as that's what he always wanted from people. *Shrug* I, myself, am not impressed. The world has come up with far more wicked folk than him and some of his evil deeds don't even rate as bad anymore. I do think he had quite and intellect and created one hell of a tarot deck. With Lady Freida's help.

But I see no reason to give him any power over me, or let any fear of anyone keep me from using a tarot deck. And I don't think you or anyone else should be telling me, or anyone else, to give up their Thoth decks because you, personally, are creeped out by the creator of that deck. When you say something like that you sound like the people who tell us to give up tarot entirely because it's evil.

I happen to believe that tarot is a type of pure knowledge and wisdom that is beyond good or evil. My belief is that, somehow or other, this wisdom inspires a person; they see a facet of said wisdom and create a deck to reflect that wisdom. They may imbue it with characteristics; it might, indeed, be dark or light, but never good or evil, no matter the creator or the creator's intent. That's my belief.

If I thought otherwise, I'd have to toss out all my tarot decks...because I don't know if the original creator of the tarot was good or evil and I wouldn't be willing to take a chance. This is what I meant by it being unfair to judge one deck by its creator, but not others. By your logic, if the originator was an evil magician, than all subsequent decks are evil. Are you so sure the creator of that very first tarot deck, the one all others are based on, was good? If you have even the slightest doubt, then, by your own logic, you're going to have to toss out your tarot decks.

 

[Bloudwedd]

Hi!

First of all: Welcome!

Hi,

I have been using my Thoth Deck for a couple years now but lately the cards I have been picking are giving me really "bad" or "sad" news. Even readings which I know are obviously wrong. Has anyone ever experienced this? Where the readings are confusing and contradictory and which you instinctively know are wrong? Should I throw this deck away and get a new one?

By the way, I have been following this forum for some years now and I really must thank all of you for the many insights and lessons I have benefited from all of you!

Have to admit, I cant read with the Toth either! But for me it is due to the fact that the cards are to big and that the images do not speak to me at all. They are kind of too werid if you know what I mean.

Then I am curious: Do you have any other deck that you read with? Does that "behave"`? If you only have one deck it might be that you have to hav a look on your own neutrality when it comes to the questions you are asking. Maybe you without knowing it have a too negative outlook on things and how the cards will reply? It even might become a self-forfilling prophecy?

Then I too strongly advocate you doing an interview of the deck. IT might seem odd, but sometimes the cards just have its mind of their own and maybe you are asking the wrong kind of questions for this particular deck-personality? This spread I storngly recommend: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=44573

And I hope iI do not sound to fluufy here?! ;-)
GL
/Anna

 

[Promise]

Maybe the deck is trying to tell you something that you don't want to hear, and the only way it knows how to get your attention is by throwing a little temper tantrum.

Are there any cards that are recurring throughout these odd readings that you cannot make sense of? Are you journaling these readings? Maybe that would help you to discover any patterns that might be there that you just aren't seeing. It could be that the deck is just trying to redirect your attention to where it feels you should be looking.

Have you tried just throwing the cards without a specific spread? I would ask the deck what it needs you to know, and then just start throwing cards. Try reading them as a story without the context of a spread and see if that makes any better sense to you.

 

[Hooked on TdM]

I have had "bad" decks. However it wasn't that the actual decks were bad, it was my negative energy being bounced right back at me. I was in a negative frame (emotionally, mentally and physically.) The decks were somewhat dark themed to begin with and just really highlighted my state. I ended up putting them away for good and then getting rid of them a few years later.

I am not suggesting that you should get rid of them or stop reading. Just relating what I went through. I would suggest that you examine your life right now. Is it chaotic? Are you depressed, ill, angry? The cards reflect and can highlight our state of being.

My solution ended up being the TdM's. As the simplicity, yet depth, are easier for me to understand and the energy about them is very neutral where as I'm very chaotic by nature. They balance me out I guess you could say.

If you are in a negative type state perhaps look for a more neutral toned deck to work with until you are in a better place..

Just some thoughts..

Hooked

 

[klaus_b]

hmmm

Has this been going on for long? i have had some difficulties myself with my deck(s) misbehaving lately... since about... the last aries lunation last week... ring a bell?

 

[hslimcaroline]

Thank you so much all of you for your replies and suggestions. I really was going to throw out my Thoth deck this morning but now, I think I will let the deck rest for a while as suggested! And, Bloudwell I do have the Raider Waite deck too but I use the Thoth more often as I love the imagery. And, I will go get myself another deck this evening!

 

[Ravenne]

Hslimcaroline, I feel you should discharge your cards before recharging them again. It's not as if they're empty, but filled with negative energy and that energy has to be released. In that sense I'd go for cleansing incense, i.e. nag champa and a mineral that helps get rid of the negative energy. Maybe something like black tourmaline or tiger eye. I don't know why, but is it as if your deck is "angry"? I think I would go for recharging with a rose quartz or some other stone that represents love. Combine it with clear crystal.
On the other hand side, maybe it's nothing to do with the deck itself. Have you maybe used it without protecting yourself? If you have some negative energy in your aura, it might "scr*w" up your readings if this negative energy is pestering you. The cards speak through/for you, so if you've got something negative around you, it might also speak to you via the cards. Throwing away your deck won't help. So instead of only focussing on the deck, try to work out if there's something negative around/with you and try to rid yourself of it in an appropriate way.
Just a thought, not saying this is the case, but imo worth considering.

Warm wishes

Ravenne

 

[wind]

I also put any tired cards away in a beautiful bag...

...but I add in a "very clear quartz crystal point and ask it to draw or "change"
any negative energies surrounding my cards.

I believe that "everything" is made up of atoms and is alive, has vibrations
and is of the Spirit as I am Spirit.

Note:
...before I put my crystal in with my cards, I keep the crystal in the palm
of my right hand for awhile, until it feels really hot and energized...then I add
it to the bag. When I touch these cards again, they feel renewed and energized
with more positive vibrations.

Actually, I keep my most used decks in bags with CLEAR quartz crystal points
all the time. I also keep "cone incense" in the bottom of my deck bags and that
keeps my cards smelling great! (not for everyone though)

It does work for me. I also keep lots of semi-precious stones around my cards
when doing a reading. Sometimes I just set a crystal point on top of the deck
after I have drawn out the cards I want to use for the spread.

Might not be appealing to everyone though...

successgoodhealth (Lyn)

This is really beautiful - you totally inspired me! Today after work I will turn to our cristal shop and for sure by some nice stones to keep them together with my decks and use during the readings!

love
wind

 

[Lillie]

Ever since I read Crowley's Autobiography (all 900 pages), the guy has really started to creep me out.


http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/confess/index.html

You read it all!
Seriously????

My god. I wasn't that much of a masochist!

He frequently committed animal sacrifices in his boarding house.

I have the butcher kill animals for me.
It keeps my hands clean.

He tortured a cat just to see if it had "nine lives".

Quote from chapter 6:
>> I therefore caught a cat, and having administered a large dose of arsenic I chloroformed it, hanged it above the gas jet, stabbed it, cut its throat, smashed its skull and, when it had been pretty thoroughly burnt, drowned it and threw it out of the window that the fall might remove the ninth life.<<

Yeah, I never believed this.
And even if it's true it's totally unscientific.
You would have to kill the cat 9 individual times, the first 8 times having it come back to life before you tried again.

Some of his woman hating comments are such that I could not repeat them here.

He couldn't keep away from them, though, could he?
Each man kills the thing he loves....
And so on.

He talks (a lot) about the dangers of "mixed blood".

Quote from chapter 34:
>> It was atrocious folly to allow Indians to come to England to study, to mix freely with our women, often to marry or seduce them.<<

In the modern day it's totally indefensible, of course it is.
But at the time he wrote it most people thought like that.
He was a product of his time.
Thomas Jefferson kept slaves....

His attitude toward the handicapped? Quote from Liber AL:
>>We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak<<

Liber Al.
Aiwass writ that.

In his own words he tells how he cheated the poor people who worked for him in China. On a mountain climbing trip, he heard people shouting who were trapped in an avalanche but he did not help them because he was already in his tent with his boots off. They died.

He was an arse sometimes.
Anyway, they didn't all die. Some lived to tell the world what an arse he was.
And people still do that on mountains, walk past dying people and do nothing, cut ropes to save themselves.
It's part of some weird mountaineering code.

He repeated the charge against the Jews that has gotten so many killed, by saying (in 2 different books) that Jews were committing human sacrifice. In his diary (See July 29, 1943) He stated that "Mein Kampf" was a masterpiece and claimed that Hitler had taken his ideas.

Again, indefensible.
Again, product of his time.
Again, couldn't he be an arse?

I think most Tarot people are very sensitive to influences, and Crowley's influences are about as negative as you can get.

I think he is quite funny most of the time, shouting outrageous stuff to get noticed.
I think the deck is beautiful and profound.

There are thousands of decks out there, and most of them were surely invented by better people than Uncle Al.

How the hell do we know that?
How much do we know about the artists/creators of so many decks?
What was Nicolas Conver like in his personal life?
I bet he said stupid things and made an arse out of himself sometimes.
He might have had bodies under the garden shed for all we know.

Influences do mean something. They mean everything. I think you should listen to your intuition, and find a new deck that you can feel totally good about that will be a positive force in the world.

My intuition tells me not to believe everything I read, especially if it was written by Crowley.