Difficult subject...

Zephyros

Crowley is not a good life example of honouring the culture... He did no different than any that have sidestepped a culture... He used it to gain, for himself, a place in a different world...He stole it ...

Okay, let's go back to basics. My opinion, stated simply, is that assimilation and borrowing from other cultures is not only natural but necessary. However, I also posit that it should be done in a respectful manner that does not exploit the original culture unfairly, present its population in a derogatory form, distort or misconstrue the culture's intent and generally not enforce ideals other than the original. I have given any number of examples in which borrowing from other cultures is done badly and in a negative way.

Do you disagree with that? Simple question, yes or no. No need even for unnecessary ellipsis.
 

ravenest

Wrong...?

Quote:
"I mean if you distill beer, you get whiskey... if you distill wine, you get cognac/brandy... if you distill fermented molasses, you get rum... if you distill fermented agave, you get tequila... if you distill apple-cider, you get calvados (if you happen to live in Calvados, France)... if you distill fermented horse-milk (kumiss), you'll probably regret it..."

End Quote...


The "HOW" is borrowed... The WHY is also a fermenting process...

Following is borrowing, from a Trail Blazer... it's second hand.

Anybody can adopt or borrow ...

First are the Adventurers, the Trail blazers...then the map makers(cultures)..Then the story tellers ...then the idle curious...followed by the experts in following...

Followers rarely adventure into new unknown territory... It's a different mindset...

We all bleed red in other words we are all the same...Biologically speaking...

So what makes everyone different...?

It's our beliefs...what we believe ... You believe in the idea that it's theft without having respect for it's origins...

No .... its not a belief, its a definition, if you do that it is cultural misappropriation.

If that is what is done, that is what is done. Its not just our belief, that is why previously links were posted to definitions and papers on it . Especially as an Australian, you should realise that, like it or not, we actually have laws in palace to protect ' intellectual property' and they have now been expanded to include laws and regulations and punishments in regard to protection of indigenous cultural property.

You can try to twist it and say it just our beliefs. But you are wrong. Its now legislation.

Unless your obscure phrasing means other than what it appears to mean .

Its often hard to tell with you because of what and how you write.

I believe that even the people within those cultures are the same as the people outside of them...motivated by the same forces... gains...regardless of what sort.

I also believe that you are following your chosen path through this Tarot world for your own advantages... Same as I ...

So ? What's the point of that ? No one is saying they are different, even they say we are all one and we all bleed red and are the same on the inside. But I have read where YOU have said different to that !

Previously you also commented that the indigenous would sell their culture anyway.

Why shouldnt they ? Are YOU going to tell them they should not, that it should be unsold, or free for all? Again they are being told how to manage their own business. What ? Aboriginal people cant be great in the art world, they cant have exhibits and be flown to galleries in New York and make a bit of money? What's wrong with that ? Doesn't fit your ideas of the indigenous ? Making money in our world with their own culture so they can survive better ?
Crowley is not a good life example of honouring the culture... He did no different than any that have sidestepped a culture... He used it to gain, for himself, a place in a different world...He stole it ...

What's Crowley got to do with it? We already admitted he was a racist at times.

Sometimes you just throw in comments that seem totally unrelated. I mean they MIGHT have some relation to your internal thought streams and 'quantum packets' appear in your posts. But we cant see inside your head and figure out why you make the connections , or if they are actually there in the first place.

In any case, if you were clearer about what you were talking about, it might be able to be explained. For example, people might say Crowley, the Golden Dawn, The German Order of the Gold and Rosy Cross, The Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor appropriated Kabbalah from Judaism ... but guess what? I can show how radical 'ecstatic' Judaism / Kabbalah sects actually started the modern western occult schools.
 

re-pete-a

I suppose that a person who is motivated by "gains" might believe everyone else is too. I wonder if such a person could even conceive, much less accept, that not everyone is so Machiavellian.

You may suppose that ... and it may fit some . Though I feel that the intended target for this assumption is not ...

We are not attacking individuals we are talking generally...
 

re-pete-a

Okay, let's go back to basics. My opinion, stated simply, is that assimilation and borrowing from other cultures is not only natural but necessary.
agreed...
However, I also posit that it should be done in a respectful manner that does not exploit the original culture unfairly, present its population in a derogatory form, distort or misconstrue the culture's intent and generally not enforce ideals other than the original.
"It should be" is a demanding/controlling belief. But I'm afraid it's not what happens...It's a smorgasbord of reasons of HOW'S...I personally feel that "it would be better" if it were respectfully done...Unfortunately the 'rot inside' is more prevalent in the majority ... Hence the state of the heart is the supreme ruler as to what transpires
way I have given any number of examples in which borrowing from other cultures is done badly and in a negative way.

Do you disagree with that? Simple question, yes or no. No need even for unnecessary ellipsis.

You are trying to lead me into a yes/ no answer and I'm afraid there is not a cut and dried solution ...only preferences...Wishing V's Is...
 

ravenest

What are you actually trying to say in the last two posts ?