Doré Bible Tarot

[Moonchild]

(e.g. a man - in rather "Pied Piper" garb - fishing for souls using bait such as money, jewels, rich clothes etc - what an image! But had to go as we already have a Devil).

That sounds awesome! You can always put it online somewhere: "Alternate Images" or some such.

Perhaps in the end the best solution is to make the final decision in the context of the whole deck.

Yes, but it's difficult making/finding a "context of the whole deck" when you're selecting (as opposed to creating) images. It seems so haphazard.

Personally, I feel a RWS structured deck can stand some RWS image deviations - but if there are too many the entire deck can become a bit confusing. On the other hand, I think when you are working with existing imagery, (even if, as in our case, it's often recomposed) then there are times when you find such a totally amazing picture that it just HAS to be included.

Right, but I'm seeing that many of those RW-type images don't stand up well enough on their own. There's that "Aha" moment, and you want to share it and show everybody how very X of Y this image is that you've found. But it has to go deeper, or it's just a clone.

... how DO you make the right decisions when you don't have infinite imagery to work with?

Get feedback from folks online!!! = P

OLAL,
Moonchild

 

[Sandman]

Moonchild,

All I can add to this thread is my personal admiration for what you are doing. Although there have been faint-hearted attempts at creating a deck such as this one, none has come as close to embodying the essence of Biblical characters as yours. I will be in line to obtain this deck, once completed. Your choices are flawless IM(substantially less than)HO.

I am deeply envious of you. Having spent time in Switzerland, I believe that you live in a place just a little closer to Heaven. Perhaps this is why you can do what you are doing.

I will continue to watch this thread anticipating the day when you tell us it is done and ready to be purchased.

Sandman

 

[Satori]

Hi honey,
I'm way late getting back to you about this gorgeous piece of work, but I am really impressed with what you are doing.
Fascinating project.
Can't wait for it to hit the market!!!
hugs,
elf

 

[baba-prague]

Right, but I'm seeing that many of those RW-type images don't stand up well enough on their own. There's that "Aha" moment, and you want to share it and show everybody how very X of Y this image is that you've found. But it has to go deeper, or it's just a clone.

I think we're saying the same thing about this - that sometimes the picture that purely visually seems to "match" RWS is not always the best picture to use in terms of its real depth of meaning. Exactly. However, I think there has to be, if possible, enough visual correspondence to RWS to give the deck some familiarity - which is far from being a clone.

Anyway, interesting stuff! Good to talk about it.

 

[Moonchild]

Sandman

Thanks so much for your kind words! Such things reassure me that I'm not just wasting a huge amount of time. As for Switzerland being closer to heaven, the thought occured to me that I am halfway between Luther Land and Calvin County; so, maybe so?

One Love All Love,
Moonchild

 

[Moonchild]

Okay, so what about titles? Does there have to be enough textual correspondence too?
I'm really stuck on the group from Trump II to Trump IV: High Priestess, Empress, Emperor, Hierophant. I said I'd call the Hierophant "Revealer" and I want to stick with that. But then, what about the Priestess? Is a priestess really appropriate to a Bible Tarot? I thought of "Handmaid" ("Behold the handmaid of the Lord."), but it seemed too lowly, and too narrow. "Keeper" (as in, of Secrets) is just ridiculous by itself. Actually, the best title is probably "Confidante," but would anybody get it?

Also, I thought I should title the Empress "Queen of Heaven." Then the Emperor would have to be "King of Earth" or some such. And if I start changing too many titles, the deck will have a weird combination of new and familiar titles. Either that, or I will have to think of new titles for each card.

I went to thesaurus.com and got a list of titles for the courts. I'm sure y'all will be hearing more about that soon . . .

One Love All Love,
Moonchild

 

[Moonchild]

Two of Cups

My next hard decision is Two of Cups. One image is Jacob ogling Rachel as she fetches water from the well. He worked 14 years to get to marry her, and "they seemed unto him but a few days, for the love he had to her." But there are two problems: 1) they are physically distant from each other and she's facing away from him, and 2) the Bible doesn't talk much about their relationship. Women's POVs are hard to come by in the Bible. (Ever read The Red Tent?) Still, it's the best image for "romantic love."
http://www.moonchild.ch/Tarot/DBT/dbtpgs/C02_022.html
The other image is of David and Jonathan, in a close and tender pose. There's quite a lot written about their relationship, and the covenant they swore "between me and thee, and between my seed and thy seed for ever." There are two problems with this one too: 1) they're both men. I could write pages about it, but I'm just going to say that I don't think it's a smart idea to imply in print form that what they had was "romantic love." And 2) I want to make sure there are enough women in the deck, that it's not too male-centric (or, what's the word?). So, could two men go on the Two of Cups?
http://www.moonchild.ch/Tarot/DBT/dbtpgs/C02_078.html

One Love All Love,
Moonchild

 

[Sophie]

As for Switzerland being closer to heaven, the thought occured to me that I am halfway between Luther Land and Calvin County; so, maybe so?

ROFL. I like to think our mountains bring us closer to heaven...our Celtic ancestors thought so too, who used to worship Lug in Alpine groves

As for your dilemma, I would choose Jacob and Rachel, because it is one of the most romantic stories in the Bible. David and Jonathan's friendship is close, but David is on record for loving left and right (though not as much as Solomon). I don't see a problem with seeing their relationship as romantic, in the greater sense of the word (romantic can be erotic, or can be platonic). But Rachel and Jacob - well, those two are special and poignant. I don't see the problem in them not looking at each other, because Rachel is intensely aware of Jacob's gaze, and seems to be calling it to her, in her dignified and alluring way. It is very suggestive of male-female relationships - and of the dance of seduction...

 

[Moonchild]

...our Celtic ancestors thought so too, who used to worship Lug in Alpine groves

Used to??? I get a nice view of the festivities from my house. Then again, I live in Aargau. BTW, check out my TarotCH:
http://www.moonchild.ch/Tarot/mydecks/tarotch/index.html

I don't see the problem in them not looking at each other, because Rachel is intensely aware of Jacob's gaze, and seems to be calling it to her, in her dignified and alluring way.

Yes, I noticed that! It made me very wistful and nostalgic. {sigh}

 

[jackdaw*]

Hmm ... I started out preferring David and Jonathan. But I think I do like Rachel and Jacob best. There are too few well-developed romantic love stories in the Bible. Many of loving friendship, or love of a parent and child or child-in-law (such as Ruth and Naomi), or siblings, but Rachel and Jacob do stand out.