Doreen Virtue has another tarot deck

[Richard]

I am wondering if the internet is partly the blame in all of this. The manner in which things can be advertised, purchased and sold these days. But yes, go to your local bookstore and all you ever see is crap tarot decks and DV packs. Not once have I ever seen a Thoth or an RWS deck anywhere, except the internet (Amazon).

Booksellers are usually in the business in order to make money. Maybe there is potentially more profit to be made with junk decks and DV. Local brick and morters are competing against guys like Amazon, who are able to sell a larger volume of more popular decks like Rider-Waite at a lower price and still make a decent profit.

 

[Celtictarot]

I wouldn't want to take away anyone's love for her stuff if it appeals to them. I have one of her Angel decks and its great for a positive message occasionally. But I do feel like it's a "fast food" version of tarots and oracles. Most of her stuff has no negativity! doing a reading with them is not a full reading of light and dark and all shades. It's not a full enough picture for me to use.

The problem for me is her products and selling power is affecting other tarot and oracles on the market. people posted here their personal stories of going to their local independent new age shop and there is only DV stuff available! that dominance surely can't be right!

I wish the people who buy her stuff, would buy something else in divination as well and get a fuller picture! That is not saying I think less than them for buying the stuff, I just wish they would see what else is out there! I know 3 people in my life who worship her stuff and her postings online like she was a prophet! that scares me a little. she is REALLY milking the market!

A prophet? I have other decks also!

 

[cirom]

Booksellers are usually in the business in order to make money. Maybe there is potentially more profit to be made with junk decks and DV. Local brick and morters are competing against guys like Amazon, who are able to sell a larger volume of more popular decks like Rider-Waite at a lower price and still make a decent profit.

I don't think its so much that there's more profit with junk or DV decks, at least not on a per unit basis, but possibly by volume yes. Added to which is the reputation versus fear factor on behalf of the bricks and mortar stores. The buyers who decide what items will be given shelf space will not necessarily be familiar with tarot, let alone attempt to make subjective calls of quality, they will make their decisions principally on past track records. If an author is known and their records show previous success, the stores will feel comfortable in giving shelf space to other titles by the same author. Alternatively an unknown tarot artist or author will have little chance. These odds can be helped of course when a new title is supported by a major publisher, as there are safety factors built in by previous business relationships and contractual safety clauses such as accepting unsold returns. This reality represents a significant obstacle, making it very difficult for an independent artist to get onto those shelves. This is hardly surprising, it makes business sense, and applies to pretty much any field you care to mention, from food to electronics, music to clothing.... but when applied to tarot its particularly applicable because the shelf space is extremely limited. It also deflates the argument or hope that the DV tide of success will raise the level for all boats.... not if the port only has room for certain boats and selective of which ones are allowed in.

 

[Zephyros]

Very good post, Cirom. Interestingly, perhaps this gives more importance and validity to polls such as Aeclectic's, where people can vote for their decks of choice, unencumbered by commercial concerns. In a field dominated either by huge corporations or Virtue-esque types, independent publishers and artists need that visibility a lot more than before.

Other than the obvious purchases, how can communities like this one give a helping hand to up-and-coming, independent and small artists, creators and publishers?

 

[cirom]

I would think that an unknown artist demonstrating that their deck had done well in a poll would definitely help in being given the chance of shelf space... PROVIDED that the poll had some meaningful reputation and acceptance. Recognition that it was a fair reflection of how a reasonably large number of the tarot community felt, not just an elite 100 or so, or an unrelated outside social group. Thats why I felt the whole soliciting issue was so damaging for this years Aeclectic poll....Hopefully its not too late to put that genie back in the bottle, but before the mods point it out..... thats getting off topic...

 

[Starshower]

@ Lee #377:
Hang on a minute there! I was IN NO WAY expressing the slightest "contempt or scorn or condescension" towards any of DV's targeted or actual customers, and am most upset that you should take my remark that way! Besides being a Mum & Grandma, I have looked after, worked with, babysat & taught many, many children of all abilities, besides some delightful mentally-challenged adults, for large parts of my life, and love nothing better! How do you make it into showing 'scorn' to wonder if these decks are meant for this audience?

Your assumption that even mentioning them is somehow negative or 'scornful' says more about you than about me!

I feel shocked & hurt to be mis-judged in this way. I know you said you weren't targeting me; but since you quoted my remark in highlight amid your condemnations, I felt attacked by association, and needed the right to clarify my attitude equally publically. And I don't represent anyone else's sentiment or opinion on here - only my own.

Working, playing, teaching & learning with the disabled, the young, the ingenuous is a challenge sometimes - but always a privilege, a learning experience for me, however old I get - and a joy.

I was saying that although these DV decks are not at all to my personal taste, in all sincerity I can see them being very attractive & positive for some of my proteges / child & teen charges / friends' children. I wondered if perhaps they were in fact the target buyers.

And btw why does your imaginary person have to be 'productive' or 'reasonably well-educated'? Imo anyone, educated or not, 'productive' or jobless, ill or helpless, is of equal human value and deserves respect & cheer - & decks if they wish.

Thanks, Aeric, for some good points of clarification. I had thought DV was addressing a Christian audience, but I see what you mean now.

ETA: Lee - to whom are you referring with "throwing stones at her customers" & being "undignified'???!!! I saw NO-ONE doing any such thing, and find these snide remarks offensive.

 

[trzes]

@ Lee #377:
Hang on a minute there!

Maybe Lee had rather picked on me for calling the DV deck crappy, stupid and aiming at a childish and immature audience. My elitist approach and arrogance here is directed to Doreen Virtue and her marketing empire only. But it could easily have been misunderstood to be of the kind that Lee critisized:

If you think DV decks are trash, that's a perfectly valid opinion to have and express. As a published author, she's fair game to a certain extent. But throwing stones at her customers seems an undignified way to express our thoughts.

I couldn't agree more to this. We don't know for what reason somebody prefers a DV deck, and it's none of our business unless somebody posts the reason here.

I liked closrapexa's comparison of DV versus real tarot with McDonalds versus fine cuisine. We can't pretend that everything would be of same value or quality. But take my wine taste for example. I would in most cases prefer some cheap italian wine to the most high class french wine. I don't know why exept that it isn't because of my ignorance. My nose and smell are well trained. And I can easily tell a high class italian wine from a low class italien wine. But somehow French doesn't work for me. Something similar MAY hold for anybody who buys DV decks.

It would be sad if those who prefer DV over other stuff wouldn't post here any more because they are afraid to be treated with arrogance or disrespect. It would also be sad if they stopped buying DV decks although they work for them because they learn that the DV business world is a nasty place. This is why I like to keep these different issues separated.

 

[Freddie]

The deck I have seen in my neck of the woods (Southern Uk region) dominating the shelves is the the 'Gilded Tarot'. Not only is the deck being sold separately, it is also on the shelves as a deck/book kit and it is used to illustrate a couple of books on the shelves as well. The deck with just a tad bit less stock than the 'Gilded Tarot' is the 'Juliet Sharman-Burke' Rider clone. I pretty much saw the same thing in Glastonbury and parts of Northern England last year. They are kind and sweet decks and it nice to see them 'out there' for newbies to Tarot.

Waterstones loves the 'Gilded' and I have seen them in every one I have been in.





Freddie

 

[cirom]

Really Freddie, the Gilded is "dominating" the shelves? Do you actually mean there are more copies of the Gilded than other decks on any given shelf or that most stores have a copy? I'll need to accompany you next time. I go the UK (southern region) twice a year to visit my parents. And I have never noticed such dominance. If so I find it surprising that Waterstones would give such preference to a deck released ten years ago, especially with all the better Tarot decks released since, plus of course the DV collection. If it is the case its also a mixed blessing, good from the royalty perspective, bad in the sense that I was hoping the sales would actually drop so that Llewellyn would kill it once and for all and replace it with the Royale. Different topic though for this thread....

 

[gregory]

Really Freddie, the Gilded is "dominating" the shelves? Do you actually mean there are more copies of the Gilded than other decks on any given shelf or that most stores have a copy? I'll need to accompany you next time. I go the UK (southern region) twice a year to visit my parents. And I have never noticed such dominance. If so I find it surprising that Waterstones would give such preference to a deck released ten years ago, especially with all the better Tarot decks released since, plus of course the DV collection. If it is the case its also a mixed blessing, good from the royalty perspective, bad in the sense that I was hoping the sales would actually drop so that Llewellyn would kill it once and for all and replace it with the Royale. Different topic though for this thread....

Actually Cirom - yes, he's right. The Gilded is in every Waterstones I go to in greater quantities than DV's TAROT - though her oracles do outnumber everything else in MBS. Don't forget the Easy Tarot kit - there are usually three or four of that, and the deck on its own, and a couple of the Gilded kit as well - and a couple of Legacy of the Divine. And then maybe two Lo Scarabeo decks and an "original Rider Waite." Occasionally there will be something else as an added extra - currently it's usually that Art of Tarot one. The Wildwood has pretty much vanished there lately, but that Tarot for Beginners with the NIGHTMARE packaging where everything falls apart when you remove the shrink wrap is often to be seen. That's the Sharman-Burke one Freddie refers to. Oh - and the old style Mythic - it's a good source for those who still want that one - so much better than the new and nasty one !! But yes, the Gilded always wins - in TAROT !

Hard luck. It will NEVER go away till the day you kill it !