Need insight regarding the Courts corresponding dual element

[Ruby Jewel]

Information overload is certainly a risk, especially if the correspondences are tossed in willy-nilly; a "working plan" is advisable. If the instrinsic meaning of a card, either singly or in combination, isn't crystal-clear from its description or pictorial presentation, I look at its element first, followed by its traditional astrological associations - planet, sign, decan, quadrant, etc; next, I'll consider the nature of a card's number from a Pythagorean perspective; third, I'll look at the location of the card on the Tree of Life (and possibly its other qabalistic underpinnings); fourth, I'll examine what the colors on the card might reveal; and finally I take reversal into account. I don't do much with Jung, although his stamp on anything New Age is inescapable, with classical alchemy as a divinational tool, or with mythological and pagan symbolism. Not all of these find their way into the final interpretation; they're just exploratory inputs that I take into account. I call it "turning over rocks to see what crawls out from underneath."

I agree with you here Barleywine. One has to choose among the many options placed in front of us...all are enticing, but somehow limiting our research to a "working plan" is sort of like working from an outline....the purpose of which is to limit and focus our research efforts.

 

[Freyja of V]

Moon in Scorpio is saying that the Moon was in the sign of Scorpio...

I do determine the court cards Queen (cardinal), King (fixed) and Knight (mutable) according their houses which are cardinal, fixed or mutable. The sign that receives the designation is the sign on that house according to the tarot chart (which does not take the ascendant into account) which is always based on the cardinal cross...meaning that the 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th houses are the cardinal houses. and since that makes Aries, Cancer, Libra, and Capricorn the Queens, Aries becomes the Queen of Fire (wands), Cancer the Queen of Water (cups), Libra the Queen of Air (swords) and Capricorn the Queen of Pentacles (earth). Each quadrant contains 3 houses: cardinal, fixed, and mutable, consecutively.

The categories for the aspects designated as "exalted", "fall", "dignified" or "detriment" are based on the planets and the sign they rule. In the tarot, therefore, it is necessary to know which planet rules which sign astrologically, and how it is welcomed by the planet it aspects. For instance, the Moon is dignified in its ruler, Cancer; exalted in Taurus (meaning it is powerful); detriment in Capricorn (weak); and fall in Scorpio (weak). Therefore, it is safe to say that the moon does not like Saturn which rules Capricorn, and it does not like Pluto which rules Scorpio....and it does like Venus which rules Taurus. So, this tells you something about Moon in Scorpio; namely, it is not happy because it is in its fall, therefore weak and debilitated.

So, now I suppose you are thoroughly confused, but at least you have something to think about for awhile. (laugh)

Ruby,
Wowsy wow wow! (grin)
Admittedly, yeah, I am a little confused. But you have peaked my curiosity! Especially the aspects 'exalted, fall...'

I just told Barleywine I am going to choose one thing to focus on for now, learn it only, and when I feel ready, I can learn other things. You have convinced me to focus on Astrology. .

You have shown me that it could add so much more to a reading, and that's exactly what I'm looking for. And...Although it does seem complicated, I am certain it's not anywhere near as complicated and intense as mystical Kabbalah (although I do feel the sephiroth's meanings match the minors the best and will continue with that).

So...I thank you for opening up this world to me. I had no idea how deep the astrological correspondences go. Plus I really like the idea of learning more about the Fire signs, water signs etc and their personality traits and the modalities. That's what I was currently looking for with the second element of the Courts and now, with astrology, it will help with all the cards. So it's a win-win.

A side note: I was so glad to see that you, who knows their astrology, decided to attribute the Cardinal signs to the Queen, Fixed to the King and Mutable to the Knights. After I did some reading about them, that is what I decided too and that make me feel really good about my decision. Some readers use Cardinal for the Kings instead and I didn't really agree with that (for me)

A little while ago, I purchased: Astrology, A Cosmic Science by Isabel Hickey and like I said, I have Corine Kenner's book. Can you recommend any books or sites that would be good for an absolute beginner like me? And do you have an opinion about Hickey's book?

Oh...and regarding 'moon in Scorpio', I had seen on a recent tarot newsletter that it said "full moon in Sagittarius", that is what I was thinking about. I guess I'll learn what that means soon. And... I actually knew what you were talking about because I tried to do a natal chart when I was working with Mary Greer's Tarot for Yourself trying to figure out my persona cards. I did it online. But I don't know my time of birth (I was adopted) so I don't know how accurate it is. Oh, well, that's ok. Maybe one day, I can do my own.

Ruby, Thank you so much for taking the time to write me your generous posts.
I am so happy I joined this forum.
Take care,
Freyja
Thanks for the PM

 

[Ruby Jewel]

Ruby,
Wowsy wow wow! (grin)
Admittedly, yeah, I am a little confused. But you have peaked my curiosity! Especially the aspects 'exalted, fall...'

I just told Barleywine I am going to choose one thing to focus on for now, learn it only, and when I feel ready, I can learn other things. You have convinced me to focus on Astrology. .

You have shown me that it could add so much more to a reading, and that's exactly what I'm looking for. And...Although it does seem complicated, I am certain it's not anywhere near as complicated and intense as mystical Kabbalah (although I do feel the sephiroth's meanings match the minors the best and will continue with that).

So...I thank you for opening up this world to me. I had no idea how deep the astrological correspondences go. Plus I really like the idea of learning more about the Fire signs, water signs etc and their personality traits and the modalities. That's what I was currently looking for with the second element of the Courts and now, with astrology, it will help with all the cards. So it's a win-win.

A side note: I was so glad to see that you, who knows their astrology, decided to attribute the Cardinal signs to the Queen, Fixed to the King and Mutable to the Knights. After I did some reading about them, that is what I decided too and that make me feel really good about my decision. Some readers use Cardinal for the Kings instead and I didn't really agree with that (for me)

A little while ago, I purchased: Astrology, A Cosmic Science by Isabel Hickey and like I said, I have Corine Kenner's book. Can you recommend any books or sites that would be good for an absolute beginner like me? And do you have an opinion about Hickey's book?

Oh...and regarding 'moon in Scorpio', I had seen on a recent tarot newsletter that it said "full moon in Sagittarius", that is what I was thinking about. I guess I'll learn what that means soon. And... I actually knew what you were talking about because I tried to do a natal chart when I was working with Mary Greer's Tarot for Yourself trying to figure out my persona cards. I did it online. But I don't know my time of birth (I was adopted) so I don't know how accurate it is. Oh, well, that's ok. Maybe one day, I can do my own.

Ruby, Thank you so much for taking the time to write me your generous posts.
I am so happy I joined this forum.
Take care,
Freyja
Thanks for the PM

Hi Freyja......I am so happy to hear you are excited about astrology....that is the reason I dropped all that information on your head.....astrology applies to so much more in life than just the tarot......you will begin to understand people and see them differently....give them a little extra space to be "different.".... or understand their compulsive behaviors. The road you are starting down will change your life. As for Isabel Hickey....all I can say is "OMG" who referred you to her....as far as I'm concerned she is the "crème de la crème" of the astrological gurus....the book you bought was the first astrology book I ever owned and I still have it. My book did not include Pluto and so I had to get a supplement she put out to add Pluto to the book. Does your book have Pluto? If not you will need to order the supplement.

If you are interested in studying the Kabbala I would suggest you get the Papus book "The Tarot of the Bohemians" and learn his layout of the cards. It is mind blowing. Of course no one on here will agree with that (laugh)...and no doubt I will stir up a major conflagration with that statement....the world will tell you that Paul Case's method replaced his...the difference in whether the first letter of the alphabet "Aleph" belongs to the Fool or the Magician.....but don't believe it....even Rachel Pollack references him undercover (laugh)....and by the way, Rachel Pollack is a major player...be sure to get her "Seventy Eight Degrees of Wisdom." I think it comes in one volume now.

Not knowing your time of birth is a big problem in setting up your chart; however, I know someone who can rectify it for you. He is now the head of the NCGR in New York City. His name is John Marchesella, and he was my mentor/teacher back in the 80s. In fact, you might want to enroll in the NCGR (National Council for Geocentric Research....I think that is correct). You can search online. Also, he has some videos on Utube. They used to have a correspondence school for astrology. If it is there still, you might consider it. You can tell John Marchesella that Virginia Braden referred you.

One thing that helps me in studying the tarot is listening to the readers on Utube read my tarot every month or week...some of them are really good. If you would like me to recommend a few, send me a pm and I will be glad to do so. I would do it here, but I'm afraid it might be against the rules.

If you have any further questions that you feel would be better addressed via pm....do not hesitate to contact me privately.



Virginia

 

[Beira]

Thoth elemental attributions

AC highlights that his Thoth deck want to be a map of the Universe as seen through Quabalah.
He first mentions the element in a paragraph (intimidatingly) called THE TETRAGRAMMATON, that in the end is less convoluted than I feared.

He starts saying how those ancient philosopher had to deal with giving a description of the first spark of creation, that changed the Nothingness into something.
But first of all there was the problem of defining nothingness: they come up with the idea of calling it the union of positive and negative, the categories of Active and Passive.

As they are, they may either destroy, cancel each other (getting back to zero in a sterile way) or merge into one another and create something third that yet has something of both (in body and spirit).
Therefore Active has been considered as Father, Passive as Mother. The matter, the body of their union is called the Son. The spirit, the soul of their union has been called the Daughter. (even if AC here states that the Daughter is not so easily grasped as the Son..)

In Alchemy, these processes have been conveniently classified as Elements.

Fire is the purest and is active: the Father
Water is still pure, but she is passive: the Mother.
Their union brings about a third element that takes some characteristic from both, and therefore is different from each. They call it Air and represents the Son.
AC doesn't talk of the daughter at this point, going on to clarify how these elements are to be considered abstract ideas, and how for their characteristic is better to just go and think them out for yourself.

I have actually been doing this thinking since yesterday, trying to determine in what element/s category I would put what I meet during the day.
Something are more easy, some are difficult.. like: what element would you connect with transportation? (bus, car, tram...) ill let u know if I come up with an answer to that.

At this point he goes on with TAROT AND THE ELEMENTS

This paragraph is mostly attribution that should help the student in finding his own, they should work as examples and as a place to start. There are plenty attribution charts, and they all give good food for tough, wether u agree with them or not.

Through all these attributions we come down to:

FIRE: THE KNIGHTS - WANDS
In the Four worlds it is the element of Aziluth, the Archetypal World
In the soul of man it belongs to Yechidah, the Spiritual essence that has no quantity nor quality.

WATER: THE QUEEN - CUPS
In the four worlds it belongs to Briah, the Creative World, where the Father's will gets formed through the Mother. What comes out is similar to both and different from each.
In the soul of man it belongs to Chiah and Neschamah, creative power (virility) and comunicative power (intelligence).

AIR: THE PRINCES - SWORDS
It belongs to Yetzirah, the Formative World where a perceivable intellectual image is produced
It represents Ruach mental and moral qualities as they happen to be in a single personality

EARTH: THE PRINCESSES -DISKS
It belongs to Assiah, the Material World, where the mental image has become real and might be perceived with the senses.
Represent Nephesh, the phisical manifestation vehicle, the body.