Newbie's questions to lenormand readers

[Tag_jorrit]

Now I feel like I'm in the crosshairs of the tradition police. (just kidding!)

Seriously, I have no problem with negative card meanings and wouldn't use the "teamwork" meaning myself. I was trying (and obviously failing ) to inject some levity and lighten things up a bit. Sometimes we are all in danger (myself included!) of taking ourselves just a bit too seriously.

Levity is perfect! I am afraid, however, that any newbies who want to learn traditional Lenormand card meanings and theory could be unable to distinguish jest. There are plenty of oracles out there that encourage creative meanings for the cards. I think the whole point of picking up Lenormand cards is to learn to 'speak' Lenormand.

I feel particularly sensitive to this because I unknowingly took some early, unwanted detours loaded with disinformation before being able to identify 'traditional practitioners' as opposed to self-styled Lenormand card readers.

 

[Lee]

Levity is perfect! I am afraid, however, that any newbies who want to learn traditional Lenormand card meanings and theory could be unable to distinguish jest. There are plenty of oracles out there that encourage creative meanings for the cards. I think the whole point of picking up Lenormand cards is to learn to 'speak' Lenormand.

I feel particularly sensitive to this because I unknowingly took some early, unwanted detours loaded with disinformation before being able to identify 'traditional practitioners' as opposed to self-styled Lenormand card readers.

Fair enough. I'm interested in a traditional approach, and I'm currently going through Britta's course. Frankly, the traditional approach appeals to me because I find that style of reading appealing, not specifically because it's traditional.

 

[Emily]

I've really enjoyed going through all these posts. I struggle with the meanings too so this thread has made me realise maybe it was the method I was using to try and learn the Lenormand that didn't make the cards fit well with me. I too have been jumping from various Lenormand websites that all seem to use different meanings for the cards.

 

[Richard]

Levity is perfect! I am afraid, however, that any newbies who want to learn traditional Lenormand card meanings and theory could be unable to distinguish jest........

Lee's post was in response to one of mine, and I am certainly not devoid of a sense of humor, so Lee's levity was not lost on me. In fact, I find it refreshing in an atmosphere in which it is such a rarity. However, I am not exactly a newbie who is unfamiliar with traditional Lenormand meanings and methods, and I think that there is a distinctly unpleasant ambience here which is patronizing toward someone who is interested in the tradition of a set of picture cards in which the pictures are intrinsically unimportant because the reading methods are an attempt to more-or-less emulate those of an incredible cartomancist who, among other divinatory tools, used a deck of playing cards with the deuce through five spot cards removed. The hallowed "tradition" so lovingly proffered to "newbies" not only rejects the original "Lenormand deck," but there is a contingent of "traditional" readers who prefer not to have the playing card "insets" messing up the pretty picture cards, whose images play no role other than jogging the memory of a set of memorized meanings.

Because some people love to play holy war against the heretics who dare to investigate this strange Lenormand spectacle, and commence hostilities by assuming a condescending attitude toward their supposed ignorance, I must insist that I am not taking a stance for or against anyone's chosen doctrinal bias.

 

[Richard]

Lee is absolutely being light-hearted. it's one of his hallmarks.

And yet there is an element of meaning-as-use at play now in the English-speaking lennie community. They appear uncomfortable withthe concept of negative cards & so work to redefine them into sifter meanings or even positive ones. I wonder id this due to the influence if tarot ideas (no such thing as a negative or pisitive card, all is context) or of the Virtue cards (rosy scenarios & magic ponies with rainbow wings!!!!)

I think the softening of card meanings may be an indirect consequence of the political correctness mentality, which itself may be offensive, analogous to holding a door for someone in a wheelchair who, being of the self reliant sort, has managed to master the art of door opening and is insulted by the seeming condescension. Far better to wait until someone asks for assistance rather than make the unwarranted assumption that they will indeed ask for assistance (thereby not depriving the do-gooder of the warm fuzzies).

Oh my, I have rambled. Back to the topic..... The "wickedest man in the world" made the following observation: "The pious pretense that evil does not exist only makes it vague, enormous and menacing."

ETA. "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." - King James Bible "Authorized Version", Cambridge Edition

 

[tarotlyn]

I think the softening of card meanings may be an indirect consequence of the political correctness mentality, which itself may be offensive, analogous to holding a door for someone in a wheelchair who, being of the self reliant sort, has managed to master the art of door opening and is insulted by the seeming condescension. Far better to wait until someone asks for assistance rather than make the unwarranted assumption that they will indeed ask for assistance (thereby not depriving the do-gooder of the warm fuzzies).

Oh my, I have rambled. Back to the topic..... The "wickedest man in the world" made the following observation: "The pious pretense that evil does not exist only makes it vague, enormous and menacing."

Wow, LRichard... I can certainly identify with what you have just said here.

When I was first learning the Lenormand card meanings, etc, I felt like certain people with
their particular schools were actually trying to 'shove' their 'own agendas' down my throat. and still are shoving!
But why?

I finally figured it out: EGOS and selling their wares. Oh, not all of them had/have wares to sell,
but I decided that all of them have big EGOS and try to *control* others in their sly way,
(reminds me of foxes) under the guise of: "You 'should' only learn the traditional meanings
and from the school I tell you to learn from because it is the 'right' one!" LOL They all say the same thing!

Then they come in with *links* to so-called evidence to convince you and if that doesn't work, they send in their
buddies to convince you. They do it all very politely and intellectually, however (and thank goodness)
I am wise to their agendas: E G O gratification to control others. The strongest can lead the sheep?
Only if the sheep let them!

Well I did learn the traditional meanings...my way, not theirs. Oh, I did take *their* advice,
and their school's methods, meanings, etc, into consideration and actually used and still
use some of their meanings. But I had to protect my own 'identity' by deciding for myself
and not allow myself to be so overwhelmed.

Like, why should I have subjected myself to being 'spoon fed' like a baby by *only* them?

Why couldn't I just think for myself, experiment for myself, and decide for myself?
Why do certain so-called traditionalists *keep* trying to shove *their school* on me?

I will decide and I hope any new people entering the lennie communities will be strong enough to decide for themselves also.

To newbies: Don't be brain-washed. Find what works for you and use it.

More Light is Needed and some Love wouldn't hurt either.
Lyn
Yes...this post can be just ignored...but you know I speak the truth, and if you don't then maybe
you might consider that all your *shoving* could turn 'off' newbies and 'confuse' them.

 

[andybc]

Tarotlyn I'm sorry to say I really think you've been most unfair. One could say the real ego lies in what you say, as it is grounded in nothing but unadulterated solipsism.

I've never seen Stella, Lord Elwin, Ronia, Mama Whodun, Chanah et cetera behave the way you say.

 

[DownUnderNZer]

All I will say is I am glad I didn't learn the Lenormand on here when I was first introduced to it, as I have seen threads on AT that would put anyone off, as too many differences of opinion and very destructive comments at times.

There have been some keen beginner Lenormand learners here that have tried to start "study" groups and so forth only to be trodden on rather than guided or helped along. The shame is not in those trying or learning, but those that do know it, only that is as far as it goes at times.


If you go back to Steinbach who use to be on here, and I personally think she is too restrictive and narrow in some ways with her "method", from what I have come to know though is that she didn't have a very easy time of it on here at all.

AND she did come from "generational learning" and was able to give her own spin on it with the "no lay out spread" etc which does work once you "get" passed the confusion of what she is putting across.

Why cant people learn in a more supportive environment whether tarot, oracles, playing cards or the Lenormand?

The BASICS of each card is what is needed to get an understanding of each card, and combo meanings, as a reading depends on a row of "cards" not a "card" really, or with the GT; Mirroring, Corners, Diagonals, Squares, rows etc. I think these meanings can be gained from different systems, although I prefer the German or French, and they are the only ones I know although I didn't learn from a book to start with as a beginner at all. Mouth to mouth. If MOST systems have more or less the SAME MEANINGS then that is what is relevant...surely.

I would worry more if, for example, the COFFIN all of a sudden became a form of transport or the LILY was looked at as an "Electronic" device.

So, in other words, as long as certain "basic meanings" don't change that is what counts.

As for "readings" that worries me a bit, but as long as the question is adhered to and a real understanding of the cards, I don't see why it cant work.

 

[Nina*]

Tarotlyn I'm sorry to say I really think you've been most unfair. One could say the real ego lies in what you say, as it is grounded in nothing but unadulterated solipsism.

I've never seen Stella, Lord Elwin, Ronia, Mama Whodun, Chanah et cetera behave the way you say.

Now that you do mention names yourself here, Andy... oh yes... one of them certainly have. And do. All the time.

 

[tarotlyn]

Tarotlyn I'm sorry to say I really think you've been most unfair. One could say the real ego lies in what you say, as it is grounded in nothing but unadulterated solipsism.

I've never seen Stella, Lord Elwin, Ronia, Mama Whodun, Chanah et cetera behave the way you say.

andybc, you know what... I was just saying what I experienced coming into
the lennie community.

Plain and simple.

Lyn