Pets in horary.

[Ronia]

Well, Minderwiz already made his point, so... I'd personally use the 7th as that's how it feels, right or wrong. In this case, I think you should keep looking and towards water, tall grass, tall trees, also ask more and further, especially around the school and around water. Best of luck, Willowfox!

 

[Minderwiz]

I'm trying not to be dogmatic over this one, because 'perception' is important - both the querent's and the astrologer's. However we have to recognise that Bird is not human. He's a 'small animal' and we have to have very good reason for not using the sixth. Personally, I'd also use the fourth because he is a 'treasure' but if I were getting desperate, I'd try them all!! I certainly would do that if I were the owner and I'd look everywhere till I was unable to think of anywhere else.

On the issue of Water - my chart has Bird in a Water sign, Cancer. So I would indeed look for water. Cancer is the sign of the sea shore, and indeed the river bank, or lake bank - so the shore line might be worth investigating. In terms of distance, I agree that Bird probably got further than we Willowfox has been able to check. On my chart he lies 'east' now that could be the east bank of the river, or it could be some other water that is east of the road.

Yes I agree the eight of itself does not mean Bird is dead. I've mentioned two or three times that Bird has passed the 'alive' test, using the sixth (but sadly not the fourth).

'Lost' items don't have a dedicated house. For lost movable possessions it's the second, for lost treasure it's the fourth, for lost small animals its the sixth and for lost large animals it's the twelfth. A fugitive (who is by definition 'lost' (by the forces of the law) is the seventh and a lost spouse would also be seventh and so on.

Being placed in the eighth could mean a lot of things depending on whether the lost item is lost inside or outside the home. The eighth generally has to do with 'elimination' so that could mean next to a water outlet or waste pipe or sewer and sadly it might also mean lost completely.

One last point for the moment - my chart has Bird in the first, according to Lilly if the lord of the sixth is in an angle, then the 'beast' is in 'a pound or a close or in the house' That could mean that Bird has been recovered by the police or an organisation, such as an animal welfare charity' or even an individual. You might check whether there's any such organisation locally. That might explain why I get 'alive' readings and Ronia gets them but Bird is not found and a fair amount of time has passed.

 

[Minderwiz]

I'd take Bird's significator to be the 7th and thus Saturn... Not willing to give any false hope, just thinking. I've read many times that a pet which we think of as a friend and especially a pet we turn to by name should be a 7th house thing...

This is something I've not come across.

Checking the modern texts on horary, Frawley would use sixth or fourth, Lehman would use sixth, (and specifically rejects pets as 'children' or 'family') Barclay uses the sixth for her horaries on missing the cats, Tony Louis uses the sixth and Barbara Dunn (not surprisingly) follows Olivia Barclay.

Although Sue Ward and Deborah Houlding have not published horary texts, Houlding is also a use of the sixth for pets and Sue Ward who is a great pet lover, also uses the sixth.

Have you come across the use of the seventh in a horary context or was it a more general consideration?

 

[Ronia]

This is something I've not come across.


Have you come across the use of the seventh in a horary context or was it a more general consideration?

It was about horary. First time I was told that by a friend in Europe who does horaries (that's what she does for living), so personal opinion, and then I've met it a few times while searching for something on horary (mostly googling) on horary astrologers' blogs, so not a book or something more serious, just personal pages and blogs. Sadly, I never put these in my favorites as I just check what I need and I move on but I memorized this, it loooked interesting to me. It wasn't only about pets. It sounded like "if you ask will I meet the man I'll have a romantic connection with soon" it may be 5th or 7th or even 11th. But if you ask "will I have a romantic encounter with Bobby" it would be only 7th. I guess it derives from the old magic adagio "name it and you control it", the power of naming someone/something that changes the picture. There was one example with a ring which was named, an old generational relique which had a name and the horary was using the 7th to locate it.

As about Bird being found, I thought by a child or children... But that was using the 7th's significator. Using the same significator, I also saw Bird being in someone's house as I wrote above... So may be in more than one way the chart points at same things...

 

[willowfox]

There is some kind of man made lake to the east on a golf course but it is quite a considerable distance away at least for Bird, and the river bank is very difficult to get to in the area where Bird took flight, if I fell in the river there then I won't be posting on here ever again.


Hopefully school starts soon, and then I can get the teachers to tell the children about Bird at morning assembly. A captive audience. Today will be putting up more posters. I worry about children finding Bird as well, many of these Thai kids are spiteful little devils and when Bird gets frightened or upset he will bite to protect himself from what he perceives to be a threat, poking and prodding causes him to get angry and thus bite(very hard).

So far no chart shows a recovery but knowing if he's still alive, his approximate direction and distance greatly improves my chances of finding him at some point in time, well at least I hope it does.

 

[Ronia]

I think Bird is farther than you think, at least from my own tools. I think you should get closer to this river and call him, I saw him hiding among tall grass/plants or being lost there or at a nest somewhere around... Or this lake, of course, it's an option. And I'm sure you will find out soon. If he will return, I don't know, but that you'll get some info, you should. Best of luck and keep us posted! (don't dive into charts, IMHO, it only makes us gloomier when we are emotionally hurt and we try to get an answer again and again, at least I am such and I stay away from anything most of the times, just do my best and ignore predictions, I ask for help and usually it comes)

 

[willowfox]

"How is Cuckoo and will I find him soon?". 9.57 am 25th October, 2013.


Again Jupiter is ruler of 1st, but Moon is in 7th heading towards Jupiter fast. Moon is also heading to a trine with Mercury Rx, ruler of 7th. Does any of this matter? Venus ruler of 6th is in 12th, Sag.

As Venus is not moving as such, isn't the Moon who we look to for confirmation of an action etc?

 

[willowfox]

Today I managed to get up to the river bank, at least a small section of it where Bird disappeared but nobody was there. This is the river bank west of the school, then I went to the otherside of the river and asked at a few places directly opposite the wasteland area but no one has seen Bird on that side either.


In your post above you said "east" but on the day Bird disappeared he only managed to fly about 3 feet off the ground, so my reasoning is that he couldn't fly over the school or the government clinic/healthcare place next door, east, and next door to this is an abandoned open crematorium but the front wall is about 5 feet high. When Bird turned the corner at the school and headed north, a pickup car was close behind him which would have forced Bird to take quick evasive action, so an easy route would have been to the left, west, but then what happened after is the mystery.

 

[Minderwiz]

"How is Cuckoo and will I find him soon?". 9.57 am 25th October, 2013.


Again Jupiter is ruler of 1st, but Moon is in 7th heading towards Jupiter fast. Moon is also heading to a trine with Mercury Rx, ruler of 7th. Does any of this matter? Venus ruler of 6th is in 12th, Sag.

As Venus is not moving as such, isn't the Moon who we look to for confirmation of an action etc?

Venus is Lord 6 (through Taurus). Venus is slow but doesn't turn retrograde for two months. The placement in the first (Venus proximity to the Ascendant places her in the first) gives a direction of East. It also could be read as being in the pound, or a close or in the home. The pound being the more reasonable. That is bird has been recovered and is being held somewhere. That's the same result as in my chart.

In places, Lilly suggests that the place of the Moon describes the whereabouts of the thing lost (either property or animals). The Moon is in the seventh in Cancer. So again water seems to be important. The Moon near to the Lord of the Ascendant suggests bird is not far away (from where you were searching).


One caution though, repeated horaries on the same question, close together will eventually produce random results. So you might concentrate on the searching for the moment and give it a few more days before asking another.

 

[willowfox]

Searched to the east today, the only water I found was kind of stagnant, and that's it. Checked the crematorium and nothing there either.