Star

[HoneyBea]

yes I agree with you here. This may be of some interest in Robert M. Place's
Book Tarot, History, Symbolism and Divination he says of the Star

She is completing Iris' mission and nurturing the world

so it appears that Robert is relating the Star to the goddess Iris ummm - interesting.


I have copied this from my write up about Temperance its the information I have managed to find out about the goddes Iris

This is what I managed to find out about the goddess Iris:
Apparently in Greek Mythology Iris was the goddess of the rainbow and the messenger of the Olympian gods. She was also a goddess of sea and sky and the daughter of Thaumas "the wondrous" a marine god and Elektra her mother "the amber" a cloud-nymph. Apparently for those Greeks who lived in the coastal areas the rainbow's arc was most often seen spanning the distance between cloud and sea so Iris was believed to replenish the rain-clouds with water from the sea. She was also the messenger of the gods and could I think be considered the female equivalent of Hermes. According to Pictures of the Heart "She carried a pitcher which contained water for putting perjurers to sleep. The rainbow is considered both the essence of Iris and the pathway by which she traveled."

Maybe Robert sees her as nurturing the world because she is the goddess of the sky and sea - light and water? - have to think about this one some more *lol*

 

[Teheuti]

so it appears that Robert is relating the Star to the goddess Iris ummm - interesting.

Robert Place's book is excellent in the Renaissance history section but there are major problems with his material on the RWS deck. It is not a deck he personally uses, but was asked to include the RWS material by his publisher as a way of selling the book. He's totally wrong about how the deck was printed and there's tons of misconceptions in his writeups on the cards. It's too bad because otherwise the book is brilliant.

Usually Iris is related to the Temperance card. There is an iris on it and the rainbow motif is part of the GD Qabalistic tradition that goes with it (not appropriate to get into it here but you can probably search the forum using Temperance & rainbow).

Here's some of my notes on Iris:
Greek Goddess of the rainbow. She was a messenger and transported women’s souls to the underworld. According to some sources she is the Mother of Eros/Love who is stronger than Death or the Devil. [Zephyrus was father.] Goddess of the Rainbow (many-colored veils), bridge between heaven and earth, source of the waters from on high. Both the organ of sight (iris of eye) and the visible world that it saw. Hera’s messenger. Mother of Love, she prepared the bed for Hera and Zeus. Could journey to the underworld. Fetched water from the river Styx to bind oaths. Carried the caduceus. Was known for her good humor. Was sent to release the soul of Dido when she died on the pyre (out of grief at Aeneas’ leaving her), and to rouse the sleeping Morpheus. Helped dressed the gods. Served nectar and ambrosia. In the form of the fleur-de-lys of LOUIS VII its three leaves = faith, wisdom, and valor.

She seems to fit well as the card following Death.

Mary

 

[HoneyBea]

Robert Place's book is excellent in the Renaissance history section but there are major problems with his material on the RWS deck. It is not a deck he personally uses, but was asked to include the RWS material by his publisher as a way of selling the book. He's totally wrong about how the deck was printed and there's tons of misconceptions in his write-ups on the cards. It's too bad because otherwise the book is brilliant.

and I really liked his book, so now his references to the RW deck I cannot take as serious! - I kinda liked what he had to say *lol*

Usually Iris is related to the Temperance card. There is an iris on it and the rainbow motif is part of the GD Qabalistic tradition that goes with it (not appropriate to get into it here but you can probably search the forum using Temperance & rainbow).

Yes I could see when I did my write up on Temperance that Iris was related to her - but was having trouble trying to relate Iris to the Star

I need a new reference book *lol* but I still think some of what Robert has to say is of value

 

[Teheuti]

I still think some of what Robert has to say is of value

As I said, the earlier history is excellent, but the RWS section is hit-or-miss and so everything has to be double-checked. This doesn't mean that it can't be used as a symbolic meaning - but just that it might not be relevant to what Waite and Smith or the Golden Dawn intended. This is not Robert's area of expertise and it shows.

Mary

 

[Andalucia]

I find the waite interpretations in the 'divinitory meanings' section of his PKT generally at odds with the descriptions (themselves often vague or murky!) given in the front of the book next to the pictures of the major arcana.I do not refer to these divinitory meanings at all anymore!

But I do appreciate in his description of the star in the front section of the book his statement;- 'It has been said truly that the mottoes of this card are 'waters of life freely' and 'gifts of the spirit'.

The waite PKT descriptions can in places be disconcerting and frustrating (e.g. he describes the reference to the Star as a 'card of hope' as 'Tawdry'!), but I still manage to discover (albeit with some 'filtering') meaning from his PKT that deepen my appreciation of the cards. I love the language in the book too!

 

[Hermotimus]

The star Card and astrology

A. E. Waite states in his autobiography and in two of his other works that he considered astrology and star gazing to be completely unrelated to anything dealing with the occult. When he was head of the Golden Dawn he avoided any use of astrology or stars in connection with the rituals of the Golden Dawn. Thus, any reference of the star card to the celestial sky or to astrology is completely out of keeping with Waite's published beliefs and his actions with regards to the RWS deck. I will leave all of you to decide what this means in terms of the star card. But I also disagree with the posts about the major arcana being circular because Waite never mentioned or used that layout of the cards in any of his published writings. He however, approve of the three line method of the major arcana with the Fool card at the top of the set and three lines below it: the first line being cards 1 - 7, the second being 8 - 14 and the third being 15 - 21. And with that alignment and the straight story alignment of the Major Arcana I think you will have the best chance at getting close to the meanings that A. E. Waite was placing on the cards of the Major Arcana

 

[Teheuti]

He however, approved of the three line method of the major arcana with the Fool card at the top of the set and three lines below it

Do you remember where he talked about this? I'd really love to have this reference.

Mary

 

[Teheuti]

The waite PKT descriptions can in places be disconcerting and frustrating (e.g. he describes the reference to the Star as a 'card of hope' as 'Tawdry'!), but I still manage to discover (albeit with some 'filtering') meaning from his PKT that deepen my appreciation of the cards. I love the language in the book too!

LOL: I think you are one of the few who appreciates Waite's language. I appreciate that he uses words very precisely and has a lot to say, but cannot read very much of him at one time as his obfuscations are annoying.

Regarding the short divinatory meanings (DMs): Waite was attempting to integrate about half-a-dozen prior sources. This was a bold undertaking and can only be appreciated when you examine his DMs next to those of Etteilla, Chambers' (playing card meanings), Lévi, Mathers (1888), the Golden Dawn, and several others. He had to be very careful not to cross the line with anything that was too specific to the Golden Dawn secrets, though they are hinted at on occasion.

In his descriptive sections he wanted to point to the deeper significance of the cards, especially in relation to his own beliefs about the "Secret Tradition." His reference to hope being tawdry probably meant simply that he thought she was so much more than "the expectation that you will achieve your desires." For him, "gifts of the spirit" and the "waters of life," were a sacred trust. This is the "influx from the Great Mother"—the gift, the treasure, the Tincture—by means of which Life achieves its greatest purpose.

To go back to Vaughn's "Lumen et Lumine" that I quoted earlier: "you shall perceive a great treasure. The chiefest thing in it and the most perfect is a certain exalted Tincture, with which the world—if it served God and were worthy of such gifts—might be tinged and turned into most pure gold.” Now we can see more clearly what gifts/treasure he's referring to. The "waters of life" are this "exalted Tincture"—what has been sought for by alchemists throughout the ages—but, mystically speaking, is available to everyone. By contrast, normal "hope," even of an afterlife, seems tawdry—when we can become the perfect golden light of a star.

Waite's PKT is a much deeper book than it appears on the surface, but much of it is veiled in oblique references. I think of it as a treasure chest that reveals its riches bit-by-bit and only after much searching.

Mary

 

[Hermotimus]

Waite article on three lines of major arcana

Do you remember where he talked about this? I'd really love to have this reference.

Mary

It was in one of his articles published in The Unknown World - A Magazine published starting 1895. I believe in was in a 1901 or 1902 issue of the magazine. He was a regular contributor throughout the lifetime of the magazine and contributed articles there in almost every other issue, and while I cannot remember the specific issue. I do not have copies of those articles, and though I once read them in a private library, the condition of the magazine pages was such that it would not stand to be xeroxed and the owner properly refused to allow me to copy them.

 

[Andalucia]

Thanks for your comments above Teheuti, you have given me much food for thought on Waites PKT including your explanation of what he meant by 'Tawdry'.