The Great Tarot Controversy

[ZenMusic]

Very Entertaining thread....fun.. but.... obviously the quantification of "Kabbalah" into two (2) systems is under-researched... and the gloss over the meaning of the various spellings is a symptom of that, but that's easy to research on the Inet. understanding evolves..

a collection of symbols found in the Western Qabalah tradition (much of which will never be found in a Jewish School of Mystery) and this relates to Western Astrology.

would you enumerate these please ...thread would then be more educational, and with some specifics we could get into a deeper discussion..

.

 

[gregory]

My goodness what a fabulous deck. I NEED this deck. What is it?

The Meneghello Vacchetta. If you seriously want it, PM me; I think I know someone who still has one in stock....

Now, if anyone wants to see how meanings have evolved, there is a wonderful book by Paul Huson, Mystical Origins of the Tarot, which includes a bit of a history of the tarot card meanings. He lists for each card the meaning from 1) Eteilla, 2) Mathers, 3) Golden Dawn, and 4) Waite, as well as meanings from astrologer Picatrix for the decanate assigned to each card, which seem to be a source for the original cartomantic meanings.

That is one seriously excellent book. As someone has said - most LWBs seem generic and with no relation to any deck in particular. But there are many ways to read, and it serves no-one trying to rubbish these. Read the way that works for you.

And remember why you are doing it.

It is hard not to respond to ridiculous posts, by the way. They shouldn't be left unchallenged just because responding might cause offence. They are in themselves offensive to many people here.

 

[jmd]

What Baccus93 has shown is not that there are any tarot decks based on Kabalah (by whatever spelling, and whatever form adapted or altered by various individuals), but rather that there are some decks that are in part based on tarot, and in part based on other branches of study (often but not solely Kabalistically oriented), each overlayed in various ways (for example, the Waite/Colman Smith and Crowly/Harris overlayed in a different manner to the Falconnier, the Lasenic or the Wirth).

As to

'Say out-loud "Ten of Disks" and I will tell you its divinatory meaning without having to look at a card. It means full satisfaction on the material plane. It means happy family status.'​

Why would it refer to the material plane when we know full well that the suit refers to element of Fire??

...and happy family status?? From whence this absolute certainty (outside of a specific deck)? It could instead mean quite distinct and different things - and, as others and I have at various times mentioned, elemental attributions are not universally accepted, nor intrinsic to the implement - and that latter is what is depicted on tarot, NOT an element (yet another addition and influence on many decks in addition to tarot's predominant influence).

 

[Knight of Wands]

I think that we've probably made our point to Baccus now...

Let's not be mean.

 

[gregory]

I think that we've probably made our point to Baccus now...

Let's not be mean.

Who's being mean ? the discussion has begin and is ongoing. It is rather interesting actually, in spite of some of the weird posts.... And I see nothing to suggest that Baccus is upset ?

But I swear I have the odd deck that claims to be based on Kabbalah. I must look. Does the creator's intention count, or only the views of people who look at the deck once it exists ?

 

[Knight of Wands]

I don't know gregory.

Maybe I'm just being too sensitive again?

It's just, most people seem to disagree with Baccus and I don't him to get upset and feel like he's being outnumbered, and then that discourage him from AT.

But hopefully he's ok, and I'm just being too sensitive (again)

 

[gregory]

I still want to know - if (big IF) the theory holds up that the deck doesn't matter - why not just write the card names on 78 pieces of paper and use those ? Think how much money would be saved, and how many artists would go out of business....

(I do know someone who did that once actually - but it was an emergency !)

I also think that sometimes when we go to read, choosing the deck to use is part of the whole process. Then again - I read weirdly anyway.....

 

[firecatpickles]

Read the LWB of any Tarot deck (meaning: 78 card deck with 22 majors and 56 minors) and you'll find the core of every assigned interpretation the same. And look into the systems I've mentioned, you'll find the roots.

(And I swore I wouldn't post anymore!!!!)

I gots to say it: You just talked yourself out of your own argument; ergo, if "any" tarot deck's LWB has an "inerpretation the same," well, slap me & call me Susan, aren't you saying in effect that there isn't a controversy at all?

Confused,

Reece

 

[Anna]

(And I swore I wouldn't post anymore!!!!)

I gots to say it: You just talked yourself out of your own argument; ergo, if "any" tarot deck's LWB has an "inerpretation the same," well, slap me & call me Susan, aren't you saying in effect that there isn't a controversy at all?

Confused,

Reece

LOL Susan!

I think the controversey is that we are all supposed to have reacted with shock and horror and a mass shattering of ego's upon learning the undeniable truth from Bachus that we are all, on mass, wrong.

Instead, we've all found it rather silly and midly irritating.

Or, to use my friend KoW's well chosen descriptive, a load of codswallop

 

[rebecca-smiles]

It's just, most people seem to disagree with Baccus and I don't him to get upset and feel like he's being outnumbered, and then that discourage him from AT.

But hopefully he's ok, and I'm just being too sensitive (again)

To be fair, he wanted to create a stir and now he has.

On the other hand, this thread is a little bit all over the place with lots of challenging posts tackling different aspects of what he was saying. each could easily be a separate topic!

nothing wrong with sensitive; its always good to have someone be any groups conscience, just in case