There’s a broken wheel on the gurney Part Deux

[Indigo Rose]

You like Martin Luther King, don't you.

Yes, as do I. He was a true hero.

Me? I am far from perfect. I am however guilty of facilitating a conversation. I do try to learn from my mistakes.
Umbrae Draco

You most certainly do facilitate conversation. I respect you for trying to get people to do better; even though it feels like a hand grenade has been launched, at times. Despite the painful sting of the shrapnel, the necessary mission has been accomplished. People are talking about personal accountability in their Tarot readings. For that I second what Nisaba said:

They may be wrong - few enough of us are perfect - but they are always worthy of respect. And you are one of 'em. Umbrae, I take my hat off to you.

<raises hand to take off hat, finds no hat, removes top of head instead>

As for helping Newbies....I've tried to myself, though I am not a Pro with the same amount of experience as may here have. I do still have experience and some knowledge, which I try to use to help out. The thing is though, I've found people can be either dismissive or rude. This makes it feel like it doesn't matter whether we contribute or not.

Recently, I recalled giving feedback on someone's reading which I felt the cards were essentially saying 'it's none of your business',
and what is secret will remain secret. When I presented this idea(of course with more tact than I have stated it here), it was pretty much dismissed. What's the point of giving an opinion if it really doesn't matter? I'm just wasting time then. There in lies the problem of helping...whether it's newbies or anyone else for that matter. Maybe it's the nature of Forums, but sometimes it seems people present problems just to complain about them or get sympathy...or worse yet, just to pick a fight with someone. Who really wants help? Who really wants to help? It just seems there is a lot of Ego-itis that goes around and it only hurts people. I digress.

Certainly a great subject, Umbrae...but not an easy one by any stretch.
I do respect you though. It takes courage, maturity, and wisdom to admit your own wrong and to challenge people to do the same so they can grow.
Blessings,
IR

 

[thorhammer]

Alta, is there any way that, upon joining AT, a New Member could be directed automatically in the direction of the FAQs, Thirteen's Card Meanings, and a few other select resources?

I would be willing to mentor the occasional newb - but perhaps I'm not *experienced* enough, or whatever the criterion is.

I'd say there might be a few . . . but not enough to cater to the tide of incoming.

\m/ Kat

 

[Alta]

It has been a long time since I joined, but I thought all that was in the welcome letter. I'll check. Maybe a Sticky in New Members. A lot is possible without demanding huge time commitments from individuals.

 

[gregory]

Recently, I recalled giving feedback on someone's reading which I felt the cards were essentially saying 'it's none of your business',
and what is secret will remain secret. When I presented this idea (of course with more tact than I have stated it here), it was pretty much dismissed. What's the point of giving an opinion if it really doesn't matter? I'm just wasting time then. There in lies the problem of helping...whether it's newbies or anyone else for that matter. Maybe it's the nature of Forums, but sometimes it seems people present problems just to complain about them or get sympathy...or worse yet, just to pick a fight with someone. Who really wants help? Who really wants to help? It just seems there is a lot of Ego-itis that goes around and it only hurts people. I digress.

No - you don't digress. I absolutely agree with you - what is the point of trying to help when someone you KNOW has just done their very first reading says you're wrong. There are pity parties on here - chat ones are fair enough, but when you post a reading and ask for help, help is what is (usually) offered, and to try and turn it around if you don't like what is said, and suggest that you are being attacked is - well, off.

I did think newbs were directed to FAQs - seems to me Solandia posted something about that in a tech thread a while ago ? But one on one teaching - well, I wouldn't do it. Not because I mind the time etc - but because I am nowhere near useful enough. But also - I think one on one would lead to clones. I get lots of people telling me my approach is narrow minded - well, it probably is, but it works for me. Then again - I have no right to confine a newb within it ! It is great that they can get lots of different advice here, to help them find their own paths. If I hadn't been led where I was led by a then mod, I would not be reading yet ! So I direct people to threads that may help rather than tell them what to believe. But even that - I will be leading them to the threads I think well of. YMMV..... even on that !

This is all very tough.

 

[gregory]

Sorting out the wheat from the chaff postings here is also a good exercise in discernment!!

Indeed.

*rushes off to delete 99% of posts....*

 

[Grizabella]

]

I was thinking the other day that we should perhaps mentor the newb's more, perhaps the more tactful of us could provide more active mentoring, drop a caveat once in a while...

Great idea, Umbrae. We're all busy people, and certainly you are, but when we have time, we should give some tactful help instead of lobbing hand grenades from the sidelines. So far I'm seeing a lot of reasons why people can't do it instead of seeing many volunteers, though.

Lots of us do just this. When lines are crossed, we do speak up. Hang out in Using Tarot Cards and Your Readings and you'll see. The thing is, though, you have to consider what's your own ethics and what's someone else's and how much you should inflict your own on someone else.

I'm having a hard time formulating the rest of my response so I think I'll wait till the coffee hits this morning. I spent all my energy looking for my scissors so I could cut the belt out of this deerhide yesterday and trying to figure out why my cell phone wasn't working----to no avail. At least I did find my hair cutting scissors so I won't have to use my embroidery scissors for the job. But anyway, I'm backing up to take a run at the day today and I need to have more coffee to do anything coherently. On waking up this morning, I had an epiphany as to why my cell phone wasn't working. I needed to turn it on. The day shows promise.

 

[franniee]

As a Professional Reader I have to address what comes out of my mouth, weigh my words carefully.

When reading live (and back when I was just learning to read) there is no spell check or grammar check. There's no editor giving you a chance to censor your words before they fly out into the world...

In the world of Medicine there is this thing called the Placebo Effect. It is so powerful, that big pharma makes sugar pills for doctors to prescribe to patients...imagine a GlaxoSmithKline sugar pill.

In our world – a wrong word may create a Placebo Effect that may tip scales in either direction (do no harm). Bolstered by a sufficient belief system a reader may inadvertently have a profound effect upon the lives of their sitters.

What the Gurney thread was about was our ethics. It was designed to facilitate an exploration into your own ethical standards.

As an example, what would you do if you were at a gathering, and someone referred to someone else (either to their face or behind their back) as the archaic epithet based on skin color alone.

Most likely you’d say something, or somehow express displeasure.

Nothing different was posited here.
Words can provide a negative Placebo Effect. 'What Card suggests...' (often found in Using Tarot) can be a very dangerous topic in the hands of a newb.

There’s that question I love to ask, “Why do you read Tarot (for others)?” Some think it’s smarmy or foxy. However if addressed correctly, the answer encompasses your ethics, and your world view along with applications with and of Tarot.

Why you read Tarot (for others), ethics, and world view are all integral to each other!

Do you stand up for the rights of others? That’s great.

Now how 'bout when your BFF’s in an online community behave in ways that cross the line of ethical?

Sometimes when sitters come to us (for a reading), they've already talked to the professional counselor, they've called the hotlines, spent time with the doctors...right or wrong...moralistic ethical whatever judge me how you wish...I don't carry the suicide hotline or spousal abuse numbers – I read the cards. They've already been given the expected. I give the message from the cards.

I don't subscribe to scientism, or linear determinism, or reductionist biomedical closed end models. I read for Whole Systems. I live in a Godelian Universe.

When a Newb begins to innocently cross ethical lines in Your Readings, and senior members stand by...ignoring the obvious is tacit approval.

I do health readings. As a professional reader I do them along with finance, relationships, and other serious life situations for my sitters.

I was thinking the other day that we should perhaps mentor the newb's more, perhaps the more tactful of us could provide more active mentoring, drop a caveat once in a while...

I agree with you Umbrae! and I understood what you meant. But you know that.

Also I know who I am. I am the one who runs TO the trouble, not away from it. When I lived in the city there were a few scary incidents where I probably should have thought first but it isn't me.

Everyone novice or "expert" needs to be very very careful.

I do read on health, finance, and quite serious issues ... but with a caveat. Just because I "see" something does not necessarily mean I will say what I see. It all depends on who I am dealing with. I am NOT perfect! and the more I read the more I see how to say things and how not!

I may give a vague warning - or urge them to rest or the doctor or something that doesn't freak them out and also gets them moving in the right direction. YES there is a placebo effect. YES it is strong and very very real. That is why even in the most dire circumstances I try and find a light for them to focus on.... when they have to pull themselves out of the darkness.... I try and show them the lifeline.

Yesterday I had one that made me crazy. This person's energy really struck a negative chord with me. I also didn't like the way this person hung on my every word - I did see something... not health or finance related - it was about a relationship.... a benign one.... I went to say it but I stopped.... it was going to take too much effort to explain what I meant and I knew ultimately it was going to be misunderstood so I didn't. This person was not whole. I get a number of people like that and I have to tread very carefully. Others can handle me saying "You need to Chill!" in my NY direct to the point way - others can't! I can tell if I am on the same wave length with a client - if I have tuned in and they understand me.

A year or so ago a person came in and her parent or something was quite ill and she was the caretaker - I saw death - not in the death card but I saw it - I told her a burden is about to be lifted...she got all excited and told me she was going to share this with her parent that all will be well. She took it her way - I didn't correct her. She didn't need to know it at that time. It would have broken her heart.



Your ego needs to be in check when you read. I posted a thread about a year ago about everything in my being telling me not to read this person that approached me at a venue. I told my spirit that I can do this. I thought the voice was coming from insecurity but it wasn't. I was NOT supposed to read this person! You need to be aware of your ego - your spirit - your guide and you need to listen without question. Your ego may tell you WOW you see this! Cool! But you need to know more than that. There are many many factors! It is a delicate balance. FaireMaiden posted this story that still stays with me about honoring and following one's spirit. It was awesome!



As for mentoring.... it can be a new forum. Mentors can sign up and newbies can pop in and request a mentor or something.... I see a lot of newbs just post in your readings....they should join the circles or post in the readings exchanges.... The RX is a great way to learn! providing people give proper feedback.

 

[Sulis]

As for mentoring.... it can be a new forum. Mentors can sign up and newbies can pop in and request a mentor or something.... I see a lot of newbs just post in your readings....they should join the circles or post in the readings exchanges.... The RX is a great way to learn! providing people give proper feedback.

I don't see this as being a working option for Aeclectic AT ALL.

I also wonder when someone feels that they know enough about tarot, reading and everything that goes with it to become a 'mentor'. Just how do you know that you know enough?

I wonder too about telling folks what they can and cannot read about - surely that's for the person doing the reading to decide - ethics are a personal choice and one person's ethical stance should not be pushed onto someone else no matter how much of an experienced reader the more experienced one is.

Who am I, or you to tell someone that it's wrong to read about finances, health or anything else for that matter?
Who are you to tell 'newbies' that they should be posting in Reading Circles and not Your Readings?

You all speak of egos and how they need to be put aside when reading for others; maybe they need to be put aside when advising new tarot readers too.

 

[Moonbow]

Other than the email sent to new members, as mentioned by Alta, there is an icon right next to the 'talk' one at the top of every screen labelled 'learn'. That takes the newbie straight to all the starting information they should need including Thirteen's meanings.

Every member on Aeclectic is worth listening to as far as mentoring goes, this is a learning forum.

 

[Grizabella]

Well, on the mentoring issue, my thought is that Solandia might not be liking an actual mentoring feature here. The mentoring I mentioned in the first thread wasn't a formal mentoring program, it was taking more of an interest in the new people. Participating in the full range of forums here to demonstrate in a hands-on way just how we read, why we see the things we see, giving our feelings on why or why not particular readings should be given, etc. An actual giving of readings now and then, openly, in the learning forums so that they're there for the new people to learn from. I'm sure they'd be put into the archives for people to find later so it wouldn't mean the experienced reader would have to devote a lot of time and effort to doing it repeatedly.

I get as tired as anyone else of new people coming and asking the same questions over and over and over again. Often they'll say, "I've tried the Search and didn't find anything", when I know quite well they must not have because when I do the same search, I find tons of threads coming up. But I don't have to answer every question myself. There are always lots of other members who will if I don't feel like it. So----if I'm tired of it and want to pass by that day, I do. However, I also answer the question a lot of times, even though I feel it's repetitive and boring to me.

And so what if we get tired of relationship questions? So frigging what? It's what 90% of young people---women especially---want to know about. So get over it and answer the question. If you don't want to answer it, then don't.

Mentoring in this respect wouldn't hurt anybody and would do a lot of good toward thwarting the muttering and stone throwing from the sidelines that doesn't do anybody any good. Take an active part in all the forums, not just the ones where a person can vent, rant, and criticize without doing anything about it. That's what would really help to form new readers into skilled and responsible readers.