Visconti Reproductions (merged threads)

[RiccardoLS]

Over the past months, as I relook carefully at the cards, I doubt more and more that the XV and XVI cards are 'missing', and tend to consider that they were just not part of the deck at all (making the Visconti-Sforza not a Tarot, but a Tarot relative, with only 20 Major Arcana cards).

Why?

If that were so, then we would also have a deck without the Knight of Pentacles (the third missing card).
And all of the decks we have from Milan of the same period, would have been the same to the Visconti deck in every other way, but for two more cards? Unlikely (imho).

Riccardo

 

[jmd]

That is, indeed, my predominant view, RiccardoLS: that the original probably consisted of 22, and that a number of cards are missing (including some obvious minors).

The question which arises for me is whether a number of majors slowly made their way into what is Tarot. I have no questions about the number of Majors which needs to be included for a deck to be Tarot (ie, 22) - do we need to assume, however, that those two cards were part of the original ones painted. I do think it is normal to consider that they were originally there, and for (good) reasons, were 'lost'.

When, however, we consider seriously the possibility that the deck just didn't have them at all, a coherent whole also results. I am not saying that the cards painted for the Viconti-Sforza family did not include these cards. Rather, that this may well be the case.

Looking occasionally at that deck, I even have the impression that the deck may have consisted of an even smaller number of original majors... added to only later.

I suppose that, from my perspective, and as I don't consider the Visconti-Sforza reflecting the Tarot's arch-type (in its platonic, not jungian, sense), I don't mind seriously considering that it leaves certain key and important features 'out', either for artistic, political, local, social or religious considerations.

 

[felicityk]

Looking occasionally at that deck, I even have the impression that the deck may have consisted of an even smaller number of original majors... added to only later.

Indeed, I thought it was generally accepted that Fortitude, Temperance, The Star, The Moon, The Sun, and The World are by a different artist than the rest of the cards. My source is The Art of Tarot by Christina Olsen, but I also remember reading this elsewhere. The style of the people in these cards is noticeably different, even to my untrained eye.

I also wanted to point out that in the first edition of the Visconti Gold Tarot, The Devil and The Tower are actually drawn from a deck in the Rothschild Collection that came later than the Visconti-Sforza. See The Renaissance Tarot book by Brian Williams, pages 98 and 105.

Felicity

 

[jmd]

Thankyou for this information, felicityk. The two books you mention are amongst some I have yet to obtain and read - though I do seem to recall that the information was also mentioned either in a volume of Kaplan's Encyclopedia or in the deck's accompanying booklet - which I will need to check again.

I suspect that it is precisely because of this background information, until now only semi-conscious, that some of my own reflections may have slowly dismissed more and more the need to have all Tarot major arcanas assumed included in the early Visconti-Sforza - though I must admit that the possible loss of the discussed cards still claims a stronger sense.

Again thankyou for that post - which makes me want to now obtain Williams's book, and re-check my own sources.

 

[felicityk]

Williams' book is a great one, not only for his deck but for the history of Tarot in general. The Art of Tarot doesn't have much in the way of text, but is a good resource for color pictures of historical decks.

Felicity

 

[felicityk]

Thanks to another thread, I discovered Robert O'Neill's articles on The Devil and The Tower at tarot.com. Here you can see the same cards that are pictured in Brian Williams' book, which were used as the basis for the first edition of the Visconti Gold.

Devil:
http://www.tarot.com/about-tarot/library/boneill/devil
(upper right-hand card in Fig 1)

Tower:
http://www.tarot.com/about-tarot/library/boneill/tower
(lower left-hand card in Fig 1)

Note also that these cards were woodblock prints, not hand-painted like the Visconti-Sforza.

Felicity

 

[firemaiden]

Thank you for these links. I just read them. They are fascinating. Does anyone know who Dr. Robert O'Neill is, and what his doctorate is in? I am interested to know what discipline tarot scholars might fit into.

 

[jmd]

Robert (Bob) O'Neill has a brief biographical (and a photo) sketch attached to that site, which will give more details...

His book, Tarot Symbolism (here's my review) is one of the most important books on Tarot to have yet been written. His professional work was as a research biologist (with a focus on ecological systems, it seems)...

 

[firemaiden]

Okay, jmd, now I've read his bio sketch. (cute photo too!) and your review. Thank you. How interesting! To go from hard science to Tarot, and what a gift to us, to bring the rigors of scientific mind to tarot iconography. His articles on the tarot site directly answered questions I was having about the age of some of these medieval "topoi" - the grim reaper, etc. I was hoping to find that he was in some academic field having to do with iconography...that I could follow into... sigh. But as I rather suspected, that was not the case. Do you know him personally? or how to contact him? and how do we expedite the re-publication of his book? or get ahold of one?

 

[Aoife]

I'm not sure what they are but they're exquisite!

Pure synchronicity or sweet serendipity?
I found two decks on a market stall today - both cellophane sealed but with bashed boxes. The trader did me a deal for the two and at first I thought that I might have bought a 'pig in a poke' but I cared not because both are so beautiful.

The first: "Visconti Tarots" Lo Scarabeo, c. 1997 on the front. In small print on the back "Visconti-Sforza Tarots".... imprinted hot in gold. I presume this is the Visconti Gold.

The second: "Ancient Minichiate Etruria In Firenze 1725". Lo Scarabeo 1996 - a deck with 41 Major and 56 minor cards.

I know nothing about the second deck but it the most beautiful deck I have ever seen!

Eve