What makes a reading "accurate" to you?

[berrieh]

Most of my future questions are a matter of looking for alternate possibilities contingent upon my own various possibilities for action. I've never thought of it as looking for “the future” as though it were some already-existent only-one-possible-thing. I am both the readee and the diviner in those instances.

I completely get what you're saying here... I do this a TON for myself as well. Jobs and apartments especially... I have never been disappointed in a roommate or apartment, and I think that's because of Tarot, which is very helpful in making choices. I think it's a very empowering method of reading. Of course, you can never know total accuracy because you can't walk every single path, but I think you can get the gist.

The importance of those issues should not be negated in any way, but do they really point to the main issue, which is – for those who do care about accuracy, rather than declare it a non-issue or stumbling block on the road to more important or more real issues- what are the personal standards for accuracy (because this is a personal matter, not a collective one- each reading, each reader, each seeker- and that can't be averaged out)- and how would one judge whether that personal standard was being met in those particular cases. And what would be possible ways to go about trying to create that kind of situation in any given act of divination.
People misuse all sorts of things and concepts, it does not automatically follow that all such things should not exist, or that they should be ignored as if they did not.

Sometimes people really do just want to understand stuff. It doesn't always have to be excessively and overgeneralizedly tied to red flag nefarious sounding terms like “ego” (which I am convinced no human could survive without, incidentally).

Wow, yes, this is exactly how I feel about the question of accuracy. Your post really resonates with me---and I wanted to note that when I asked the question, I didn't mean to leave out self-divination. It doesn't really matter who we read for---accuracy still plays a role. I like to read for myself, but I couldn't just read for myself because I like reading a lot and I'd get sick of myself.

I don't know how we find 'accuracy' entirely, but I know I strive for it. Is that ego? Possibly. We're all egoistic creatures, because-as far as I know-we're all human. That's what humanity is to me; it's the spirit trapped in ego.

And when did ego become a dirty word? We all have egos. They aren't going away. We can't really overcome them in this life. All we can do is understand how they affect us.

But that is getting away from the point, of course, which is essentially, "How do you measure Tarot?"

That would have been the best way for me to phrase the question. But then, it would have been cries of, "You can't" and "Why would you try?" (The answer to the latter being that I don't believe anything worthwhile can't be measured---though not wholly and totally---in some way. We can see love in a person's eyes or their tangible actions, so why can't we measure magic as well? The Bible uses images of earthly miracles in it for a reason; tangible things resonate with us in a way that the intangible just never will.)

So, I am always looking for new ways to measure. If that's ego, then I'm guilty of ego. But I'm okay with that. I try to be respectful of people, and my Sitters are no exception. But I'll always have an ego, so long as I'm human. Wishing it away is as pointless and dangerous as wishing your lungs away, in my opinion. We were given egos for a reason.

 

[berrieh]

My method for coming to that view was to strip everything that I could away in my process of divination which was not pointing toward the source (to the limited degree that that is possible, given that we are inescapably subjective, and live in a world populated by forms). Paradoxical as it may appear, using less leeway in interpretation (yes, the dreaded/derided/ridiculed “set meanings” often falsely conflated with “book meanings”- falsely, because set meanings don't have to come from any specific book (though they can), and can come from anything else, including the diviner, and (this is a key) also only have to be set for that one draw)- this was one possible effective way of doing this, for a person like me. And what was left was what I interacted with through divination. This has nothing to do with divination having to be done in any particular way for it to work, and it's not the only way that I do it now. It was about a way to do it that would be effective for what I was trying to seek and understand at that time, and in no way do I consider it “lesser” just because that was what I started with- I actually consider it “greater” because it set the foundation for my practice of divination.

This is interesting to me. I have a theory that the cards will tell me what I'll understand. So, if I pulled out a book of meanings I was completely unfamiliar with, read it, and had it in my head that the cards would use those meanings and only those meanings with no leeway... then, they would, and it would work. (It would perhaps work better, because of the lack of leeway, I can understand that, certainly.)

I think this works more in reading for yourself, however. In reading for others, it becomes difficult, because they're thoughts pull on the cards, too, and they pull on me somehow... it's a feeling that changes somehow for me. (I don't explain things I feel well.) I don't know if it's real or imagined.

It's an interesting experiment, and I'm glad to hear your take on it. Do you feel after your experimenting the cards are accurate for everything, or certain things? I'm interested in hearing more about the results of this experiment (unless I'm just not reading correctly here...but I don't really see a conclusion), if you're open to sharing.

 

[Baroli]

Ok, at the request of a good friend, I will post what I just said to her via PM.

I had a palm reading done in the 80's. She told me that I would meet 3 men who would during my lifetime be of a great influence. She also named names.

The first guy was Fred. Well, almost married him til he died.

The second was Patrick. He influenced me with getting back to acting and singing.

When I got the reading I just forgot about it. I just pulled it out, I keep everything, I am a "Pack Rat". You know who the third person was? (Btw, she was right on the money,too).

The third person is a guy named Dan. He would be the most influential in my life. I kid you not. Back then, I didn't know a Dan except the prophet Daniel from the Bible.

Accuracy has to do with what resonates with the sitter. It doesn't have to be right then and there, it can happen 20 some years later as it did with me.

Just thought I would ramble.

 

[firemaiden]

Accuracy has to do with what resonates with the sitter. It doesn't have to be right then and there, it can happen 20 some years later as it did with me.

Fabulous story, thank you Baroli. See, isn't it funny now? I mean, how "accurate" did you perceive the reading to be 20 years ago?

 

[Baroli]

Oh back then I was shrinking in the knowledge that I was (in my unenlightened Baptist mind ) that I was shakin' hands with the devil by going to a palmist. But something told me to keep that particular reading. I had a couple of others, but that one was important.

I wish I could find that gal that did the reading for me, she was astounding.

I am looking at it again and the paper is deteriorating, but I am seeing other things here that (she was a take notes person as well), that have come to pass.


*Baroli Chuckles*

 

[Umbrae]

Accuracy has to do with what resonates with the sitter. It doesn't have to be right then and there, it can happen 20 some years later as it did with me.

Just thought I would ramble.

Bingo!

Accuracy has NOTHING to do with the reader.

Accuracy has to do with the sitter. Unless you only read for yourself…

When did ego get to be a dirty word? Hang around Tarot long enough and you’ll see. Readers will walk through parading their accuracy rate (which is usually a matter of self opinion and not quantifiable).

Kinda like when did “New Age” get to be a dirty word. Take a look around, it’s become an epithet to insult somebody, and tell them they are stupid.

As for nefarious red flags…the wind knows no home…

Edited to add: (Frankly – I really don’t think that as a reader, accuracy should even be discussed…unless you are able to quantify and qualify every aspect of Tarot reading in and of an objectionable mode. And as soon as you can do that, it’ll no longer be the lovely outlaw occupation that makes it so lovely…).

 

[Umbrae]

Accuracy is, in my opinion, a giant load of crap.

I had a very accurate reading done for me once. Pay attention, Sir. Once upon a time, a reader, one Umbrae Draco, did a reading for me (without using tarot cards, or any other method) -- that was so accurate it was scary. He said, [and I quote] "On March 23" (I think that was the date), "all the doors will be open".

Well the day came, and on that precise day, as predicted, I received at four different phone calls each offering me singing gigs, one of which was a last-minute full-time opening in the San Francisco Opera Chorus, and which allowed me to earn a wonderful living for the next entire year....

Now of course, you didn't say exactly what would happen on that day, but you did predict exactly the day, and your prediction was made about two weeks in advance.

So was that important? Hell yes! It was important!

And now that you mention it, this same Umbrae Draco had earlier done a reading - in which he foresaw (but did not tell) many dire happenings for me. These dire happenings (which you did not tell me at the time) did rather come to pass, two years or so later, in fact, I did go through a period of wishing to embrace death, and the occasion to do so was very nearly offered to me on a silver platter. But I did not embrace it, I used all you had taught me, and lived through the worst, and was transformed by the experience. What you saw in the first reading was accurate, was it not? And was that not important? So... you did not tell me exactly what you saw, but you set about empowering me to handle, deflect and change what was to come about. Important, no?

Of course, we are still not in agreement precisely about what being "accurate" means... LOL. Still, I think if a reader (not me, sorry) has the tools to really foresee the future, he can also use that gift to empower the querant to handle it or deflect it in some measure, no? Is that not important??

Okay…so allow me to eat that pile of crap.

Yum.

Now what am I supposed to do? Wander around telling folks how wonderful I am? Wouldn’t that be lovely?

I prefer to post in ways that nudge others towards excellence (which pisses off enough people). I don’t want to begin telling people “Be like me” but folks make those assumptions anyways…

So I was accurate a time or two. Big deal.

Accuracy does not mean a thing to me (except it’s a yummy pile of crap).

But to you…it was everything.

Pass the salt. Crow goes much better with a grain or two.

 

[Baroli]

Would you like some ketchup with your crap? Or some ebola bay to wash it down??


We now return this thread to its proper subject.

 

[The Dreamer]

This is interesting to me. I have a theory that the cards will tell me what I'll understand. So, if I pulled out a book of meanings I was completely unfamiliar with, read it, and had it in my head that the cards would use those meanings and only those meanings with no leeway... then, they would, and it would work. (It would perhaps work better, because of the lack of leeway, I can understand that, certainly.)

I've done that before. It has worked for me. My intent was to interpret as little as possible.

I think this works more in reading for yourself, however. In reading for others, it becomes difficult, because they're thoughts pull on the cards, too, and they pull on me somehow... it's a feeling that changes somehow for me. (I don't explain things I feel well.) I don't know if it's real or imagined.

All feelings are real, they just don't always indicate anything that has to sync up with anyone else's reality. I don't really think there is any way to explain feelings adequately, in any form. I sometimes think that attempts to do so are actually worse the closer that they get, because they imply a fullness and immediacy that just can never exist second hand, and that only mocks and betrays them. It's the barrier of individuality, everyone is separated by it.
So called objectivity is just a consensus from a group of people having subjective sensory experiences and mostly agreeing on them (and without necessarily paying a lot of attention to them), anyway.

It's an interesting experiment, and I'm glad to hear your take on it. Do you feel after your experimenting the cards are accurate for everything, or certain things? I'm interested in hearing more about the results of this experiment (unless I'm just not reading correctly here...but I don't really see a conclusion), if you're open to sharing.

My conclusion was that it worked. It worked for years. It still works. It works on testable things. It blew me away, it is an incredible mystery to me, all because of working on testable things. I don't really separate Tarot out from other forms of divination, and I don't think of it as "the cards" being accurate, or doing anything. I'm doing something, but it is hard to tell what the extent of that is as I am quite sure that I have gotten answers that, by my stringent standards, indicated information that I could not have and did not know by sensory means- and these were several times objectively (such as it is) confirmable and were confirmed. The question of how much some kind of ESP might be involved in that is one I have entertained many times. And I've had a few striking ESP experiences outside of divination, but I do view my experiences with divination information as different due to the randomness factor and the stringent interpretation factor.

I would not state that divination is accurate for everything because I can't test that, nor do I even use it for most things, and not all the things I ask are testable. I only use it for things I really want to know about and also feel that I should draw about.

I do think that plenty of things are not testable in any sense normally meant by that word- (in a consensus-reality 5-senses type of way). Plenty of theories about all sorts of things are that way, but can still be interesting to speculate on, and sometimes may obliquely lead to something that is testable , if people are paying attention to looking for those possibilities and are interested in doing that.

I think it would be awesome if everyone who had testable tarot theories and had a non idle interest in doing so really started testing them, just to see how they work for them. This doesn't have to lead to across the board pronouncements (except to refute some statements that "x way isn't possible or useful for anyone" if it has ever been, for anybody... and conversely, refutations of what would "always" work or always be "best", as no one is omniscient and we just don't know all the factors that go into how this stuff works.) Some experiments can be done with a self practitioner and don't have to have anything to do with the muddier waters of "testing a reader". My approach was one of testing the possibilities of divination processes themselves.

I don't see the point of stating that any given way or theory is how it is, if one hasn't tried to explore it as compared to other ways and other related things, or test it if it is testable.

Aside from setting out to do testing, just paying attention to what is happening and has happened in one's specific experiences can lead to all sorts of interesting things, and understandings that might have been missed. Everyone has a different subjectivity of experience, and it would be a shame not to pay attention to the things which cross each one's path, such that they are lost to one's self and others as though they never happened... I'm particularly attuned to anomalies, but some are inclined otherwise- whatever one's experiences, one doesn't have to tell everyone or even anyone, but I tend to think that there is a kind of power of attention, which creates value right in that moment of awareness, and maybe hangs around for the future. Sharing doesn't have to follow it, social roles don't have to, though we are all connected in some sense.

 

[cheekyminx]

What makes a reading "accurate" to me?

When the reader and my dad have a conversation, the reader describes my dad and my mother down to a T

When a reader tells me things about myself and my family, when they give me advice about my future e.g work or study, then months later things that were said start becoming reality.

*shrugs*

If anyone lives in Sydney, there's a good reader in Penrith LOL