What's with the Camoin Maison-Dieu door?

[jmd]

The addition of the door on what is otherwise a Marseille is one of the few aspects of the Camoin deck I personally do not like, and personally consider takes away from an otherwise succulant rendition.

Thanks also Kenji for the Besançon rendition with the door - I had seen in other places some references of some decks with such, but had not recalled where, and then just plain never worried as to where to look again.

Irrespective, there is certainly an oral tradition that the lower personage falls out of a door, rather than the top, and the inclusion of the door is thus consistent with this oral discussion. Nonetheless, I personally consider the Marseille's more ambiguous depiction (without a door actually shown) to be an overall better design.

In the thread on XVI - La Maison Diev, I mention that it is very likely that the depiction arises from a representation of a minaret. The 'potatoes' at the front are very likely, therefore, sandals (so to 'slip them on' Fulgour, is apt ).

Mention is also made a little of this in the card's description I made for the Aeclectic project II.

The earliest of these depiction-types, incidently, appears on various mediaeval Cathedral hieroglyphs, such as this one from Amiens Cathedral. Of course, on these, the two figures appear to fall from the top.

 

[Rusty Neon]

The addition of the door on what is otherwise a Marseille is one of the few aspects of the Camoin deck I personally do not like, and personally consider takes away from an otherwise succulant rendition.

Well, it's one feature on one card, which is consistent with the depiction on the Besançon pattern and consistent with oral tradition. Even more on the bright side, there are 77 other cards in the Jodo-Camoin deck. Enjoy!

 

[jmd]

For those who may be interested, I once wrote a review (in about March 2002 - when there were but less than a handful seemingly interested in the Marseille on Aeclectic): Camoin review.

I would of course now write it in quite a different manner, as appreciation of the Marseille has certainly raised, and had not, at the time, yet known about the equally modern Hadar version (for which I likewise wrote a review the year later).

The problem with the enjoyment or otherwise of a deck is in its completion, rather than in only part - even if the part is for 77 of the 78. In a similar but far more extreme manner, the Besançon alteration with II and V to Junon and Jupiter takes away from the overall appreciation.

For myself, also, the Maison Diev depiction remains one of the most engaging reference point that I want to minutely check... not more important than other cards, nor less, but simply as the primary depiction that has sent me to find the other renditions on various Cathedral (and other) carvings.

The Moon on the door, of course, only adds to my previous comment about a possible direct connection between this card and the Minaret.

 

[ihcoyc]

Compare and contrast, please?

In the USA, an small building with a half moon on the door is the conventional design for an outhouse --- i.e. a latrine built apart from the house itself, formerly common in rural areas.

 

[Rusty Neon]

[delete. thanks]

 

[Fulgour]

maison de merde

So the Green Door leads to a (temporarily out of order) toilette?
Maybe it's time to take a look at the "steps" leading up to it.

 

[Sophie]

So the Green Door leads to a (temporarily out of order) toilette?
Maybe it's time to take a look at the "steps" leading up to it.

It gives another meaning entirely to the relief felt after the passage of (to?)Maison-Dieu...

 

[kenji]

Helvetica,
I'll give you a PM containing the URL for the images of Tarot de Besancon
by J. Blanche.
I hope you'll like them


Other members,
This deck belongs to Miike Museum collection.
I promised them to show the pictures to other people only privately,
so I can't make the URL public.
But just feel free to ask if interested!