Emperor/Star Switch

[GoldenWolf]

I read the explanation given in the Book of Thoth as well as Lon Milo DuQuette's Thoth book. I understand the idea behind the switch although I'm not sure if I agree with it. I'm wondering if DuQuette agrees with this premise or not. I was going through his book, The Chicken Qabalah, looking up something completely unrelated. In the chapter "Meet the Hebrew Alphabet", he has a summary for each Hebrew letter with a Major Arcana attribution at the end. For Heh, he has the Emperor. For Tzaddi, the Star. In other words, he does not use Crowley's switched attributions. After a quick skim, I don't see anything proposing otherwise or even mentioning Crowley's switch in a footnote which the book does have.

Did he not want to muddy the water by going into the switch in this book? Does he not agree with it personally? Any thoughts or is anyone aware of another place in which he addresses the issue?

 

[Zephyros]

I don't know about DuQuette, maybe he didn't want to go into it, which is strange in itself. I must admit that of all things Thoth, this is one of the things that most bewilder me (not that there is a shortage of things that bewilder me in the Thoth) and I haven't even come cloe to trying to figure it out yet. I guess I will sit down and break my head over it though, just not today.

However, there is a great thread where this issue is discussed at length, by people far wiser than I.

http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=170532

 

[Aeon418]

I think Lon wrote Chicken Qabalah for a general audience, not a specifically Thelemic one. In the book he presents one of the most common forms of Hermetic Qabalah - the Golden Dawn variety. It's foundational stuff that helps people who are new to the subject get started with the least amount of confusion.

Personally I think Lon does drop a Thelemic hint in the sections dealing with Heh and Tzaddi, but he goes no further than that. For the most part he simply presents the most widely known attributions and leaves it there.

 

[Richard]

The only way I can make sense of it is to consider Justice~Star and Strength~Emperor as complementary pairs which should remain complementary (i.e., 180º separation) when aligned with the Simple Letters on the Zodiacal Wheel. Thus if Justice (VIII) and Strength (XI) are interchanged, then Star and Emperor must also be interchanged in order to preserve Zodiacal complementarity. Essentially, I suppose this is what Crowley had in mind when he worked out the Tzaddi-Star epiphany.

 

[GoldenWolf]

I think Lon wrote Chicken Qabalah for a general audience, not a specifically Thelemic one. In the book he presents one of the most common forms of Hermetic Qabalah - the Golden Dawn variety. It's foundational stuff that helps people who are new to the subject get started with the least amount of confusion.

Personally I think Lon does drop a Thelemic hint in the sections dealing with Heh and Tzaddi, but he goes no further than that. For the most part he simply presents the most widely known attributions and leaves it there.

That confirms another idea that I thought of after my first post. That since the CQ is really an basic intro to the subject of Qabalah, he uses the Golden Dawn attributions to help people learn the basics. Introducing alternative systems if you don't have the basics down does just lead to confusion.

You're also correct about dropping the Thelemic hints. The section on Heh states that it "also means the identification of a star", for example. Next time, I'll read rather than skim before posting. Thanks!

 

[GoldenWolf]

I don't know about DuQuette, maybe he didn't want to go into it, which is strange in itself. I must admit that of all things Thoth, this is one of the things that most bewilder me (not that there is a shortage of things that bewilder me in the Thoth) and I haven't even come cloe to trying to figure it out yet. I guess I will sit down and break my head over it though, just not today.

However, there is a great thread where this issue is discussed at length, by people far wiser than I.

http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=170532

Thanks for directing me to that thread. I've spent a lot of time reading the posts and acknowledge that there are good arguments on both or perhaps I should say all sides. I'm probably not going to arrive at the right answer for myself today or even any time soon. My original question is really a lot simpler and I think Aeon 418 pointed me in the right direction.

 

[Zephyros]

All I can say is that even though I don`t understand the why of it, it feels right. Heh, the letter of the divine, the intangible, the distant, feels right in the Star, much more so than the stern authority figure of the Emperor. I don`t quite get the other side of the equation, the Tzaddi Emperor, but like I said, I haven`t given it much thought.

I wonder if DuQuette would consider a Q&A session here on the forum.

 

[Barleywine]

I've revisited this debate several times over the years, and I still come away with the impression that Crowley did it mainly to balance his astrological model. Much of the supporting argument (Tzaddi = Tsar, etc.) reaches for more than it grasps convincingly, and strikes me as rationalizing and perhaps a bit specious. I do agree that the zodiacal jiggering looks more acceptable after the additional switch. It's been a while since I thought about it; will have to go back and reconsider (again )

 

[Richard]

All I can say is that even though I don`t understand the why of it, it feels right. Heh, the letter of the divine, the intangible, the distant, feels right in the Star, much more so than the stern authority figure of the Emperor. I don`t quite get the other side of the equation, the Tzaddi Emperor, but like I said, I haven`t given it much thought......

I think Tzaddi (Aquarius) fits the Emperor fairly well, but being moderately satisfied with the conventional GD system, I haven't adopted the Thelemic model for personal use.

 

[GoldenWolf]

I think if you embrace the Thelemic framework as a belief system, it's more important to be able to justify the Heh-Tzaddi switch. Otherwise, it's more of an interesting intellectual argument. Having read with the RWS for years, I am more familiar with the GD attributions. I appreciate that sheer inertia may contribute to the comfort level though