How much do you need to read to really "get" the Thoth?

[Cassandra022]

So I got the Thoth a few months ago and back to working with it for a bit. Just did a simple two card draw for myself and wrote it up and got a really lovely read out of it, which was especially nice since both cards were minors and having spent most of my tarot history firmly in the RWS tradition, the minors of the Thoth are especially challenging to me. Like, with Marseilles minors its almost a blank slate, interpret them how you like! But with Thoth, there is a very firm SYSTEM, that happens to NOT really be the system I'm most used to. Though I do feel there has been an interesting backwards-learning effect (ie. using thoth-influenced decks helping me to better read with the original thoth) since the last time I worked with this deck.

Anyway, tl;dr aside, my question is about how much study/deep reading is needed to really "get" this deck, in your opinions. See, the only book I have is Keywords for the Crowley Tarot by Banzhaf and Theler. I like this book, because these days I mostly read intuitively, but at the same time, the Thoth is just SO filled with meaningful symbolism I feel not understanding that would really deprived me of the full experience of the deck. The keyword book really succinctly sums up the significance of the symbols, colors, shapes, astrology etc of each card. As in, I can turn to the page, quickly read all of that, then go back to the card and, that knowledge in mind, start reading as I normally do.

I don't have time for any more serious reading now anyway, but for future reference...is this kind of system of mine "good enough" for appreciating the thoth in all its glory or, in your opinion, would I still benefit from doing more serious/lengthy reading at some point in the future? For those who read with this deck regularly or primarily, how much reading/study have you done, vs. just jumping into it, etc.?

 

[GoldenWolf]

I just finished studying the Thoth while reading Lon Milo DuQuette's book on the deck (it's at home so I can't check the title) along with Crowley's Book of Thoth. The DuQuette book will give you background on Crowley's philosophy, symbols, etc as well as cover each card. Although there is more detail in the Book of Thoth itself, the DuQuette book will help you make sense of the Book of Thoth and make it an easier (though still not easy) read. I think knowing about the astrology and the Sephiroth for each minor is a huge help. At least it was in my case.

If you're strapped for time, this would be a future project. I think it's well worth the time spent though.

 

[Zephyros]

Well, the way I see it, the RWS and the Thoth aren't that different in many respects. I think that, in a way, the RWS has gotten a somewhat bad rap, if only because of its accessibility. Both decks are based on the teachings of the Golden Dawn and, as such, both were meant to be used as a system and in a very structured method of divination. The pictures of the RWS are deceptively simple; if you wish, you could go as deep, from a formal study point of view, into them as you would with the Thoth. However, they are also useful for reading with intuitively.

The Thoth actually has an advantage; unlike the RWS with its PKT, the Thoth actually has a good guidebook, with its creator delving into the making, symbolism and use of the deck. Some knowledge of different fields could help with it such as astrology and kabbalah, but it is there all the same. In order to study the RWS, on the other hand, you have to read many different subjects from a myriad of book, and even then it may be a matter of conjecture since its creator was fairly silent about it.

Now, what I find with the Thoth is that is that you reap from is as much you give it, so to speak. I used to read with it intuitively, and then I began to read the Book of Thoth and DuQuette's book and a few other things. What I discovered was that the more I know, the more I want to, and the more I study, the more I gain from it. However, when I read, I try to use what I absorbed and then integrate that into the reading.

What I'm getting at is that I feel that with this deck, it's the journey that counts, not neccessarily the destination. Read DuQuette's book, it will give you a good background and base, and then take it from there. I read it, and now I'm reading about Kabbalah and then I'll go on to astrology, and then Golden Dawn literature, and then Thelema... let's just say I have a fair sized reading list awaiting, but I'm not stressing about it. Some days I read one page and on others twenty, but I'm in no hurry.

 

[Maskelyne]

"Getting" the Thoth is a never-ending journey. Crowley packed virtually everything he knew into this deck. Fortunately, Lady Harris did such a great job of interpreting Crowley's system that a good deal is available visually without need for any supplemental texts. I found it easy to get great readings from even before I read anything about it.

The DuQuette book is a good place to start, as he patiently explains a good deal of the basics of Crowley's system and symbolism. The Book of Thoth is also a must-have for getting into the deck. But it refers to such a broad variety of other knowledge that unless you are incredibly erudite in many streams of occultism and mythology you will need additional information to make full sense of what's in there. I consider BoT to be more a study guide than a handbook.

I've been finding the Thoth-based Rosetta Tarot and its companion book (Book of Seshet) to provide some useful perspective on the Thoth. In particular the discussion of the qabalah as it applies to the tarot in Seshet is an excellent (and compact) introduction to that topic. There's a lot of visual reference to the Tree of Life in the Thoth deck, so a basic understanding of the qabalah is very helpful.

 

[Zephyros]

I might add that if you don't have time or don't want to get into lots and lots of reading, don't let that deter you from using it. The Thoth is a joy to use even without all that, and can be read with quite well intuitively. The deck speaks for itself quite well thanks to the unparalelled artwork.

 

[Le Fanu]

In answer to your question, I would say (and I apologise in advance ) that in order to "get" the Thoth as it was intended, a great deal of reading and study and leaps of imagination are required.

But it is fine to read with and enjoy the Thoth not as it was intended but simply as you want to use it. It takes quite a lot of courage to not study things and just dive in and be intuitive. I say "courage" not because it is a difficult thing to do but there are so many recommendations flying around here that it requires a certain strength of mind to say "I'm not going to research any of that, I'm just going to repond to what I see." But it can be done (though it is unlikely to be exactly what Crowley intended with the deck). I have said before (many have said before) that the Thoth will meet you wherever you are and with whatever knowledge you have . But you will always have that gnawing feeling that there is more to understand.

I have a problem in that astrology is so central to the deck and - try as I might - I just cannot "get" astrology!

The thing with the Thoth is that it's an ongoing thing. Sometimes I have a month or a couple of months during which I can't face it and it doesn't speak to me, then I hear it beckoning again and I just have to get it out and look at it and then I notice something else...

 

[Richard]

......having spent most of my tarot history firmly in the RWS tradition, the minors of the Thoth are especially challenging to me.......

Actually, the Golden Dawn titles for the minors in Book T, which influenced Waite's designs, are almost identical to the titles on the Thoth minors. Both RWS and Thoth are indebted to the same source material. Many (most?) books about divining with the RWS apparently ignore this. However, in all fairness it must be admitted that Golden Dawn publications tend to be not very reader friendly.

ETA. Waite himself may be largely responsible for the common misunderstanding of his deck. The Book T was accessible only to Golden Dawn members, and Waite felt that the material therein could not be publically revealed without violating his oaths of secrecy. RWS is actually an esoteric deck in the Golden Dawn tradition, as is Thoth.

Another ETA. Somehow I missed closrapexa's reference to the Golden Dawn origins of the RWS. Sorry, closrapexa.

 

[Cassandra022]

thanks guys. i am aware of the golden dawn connection and similarities therein between rws and thoth and yet to me it seems that, nonetheless, thoth is quite a bit of a different system in that...juxtaposing rws images that are in my mind, the way i sometimes do for marseilles, is just totally not appropriate here.

appreciate the input. looks like some reading that you guys suggested would be quite useful. will keep that in mind for the future. right now i have far too much reading for grad school to be able to, so will just do my current thing with the deck and keep that in the back off my mind.

i like the whole 'deck will meet you whereever you happen to be LeFanu :]

 

[Aeon418]

thanks guys. i am aware of the golden dawn connection and similarities therein between rws and thoth and yet to me it seems that, nonetheless, thoth is quite a bit of a different system in that...juxtaposing rws images that are in my mind, the way i sometimes do for marseilles, is just totally not appropriate here.

Actually I think it's very appropriate, particularly with the Minor cards. The Golden Dawn system is the inspiration behind both decks so it's very instructive to compare them side by side. Try going through the minor cards of the Thoth and RWS at the same time, taking as much or as little time as you like. Look at the RWS scenic minors while thinking about the corresponding Thoth cards name. Look at the abstract Thoth art and let it remind of things you already associate with the equivalent RWS cards. In next to no time you will start making connections between the two sets of Minors.

One thing to bear in mind when using Golden Dawn decks is that once you've learnt how to use one of them a lot of what you have already learnt is transferable between other Golden Dawn decks. You're never entirely starting from scratch. On the surface the Thoth and RWS look worlds apart, but dig a little deeper and you will soon begin to see that they are just two different artistic interpretations of one thing. In all likelihood you already know more about the Thoth than you realise.

 

[GoldenWolf]

Interesting suggestion to work on, Aeon418, given the common thread of the Golden Dawn system between the two decks. Without even pulling the cards out, the example of the 10 of Swords springs to mind. Whether it's the RWS image of a sword pierced body or the abstract version entitled "Ruin" in the Thoth, the core meaning is the same. Thanks for that idea!