The Order of the Majors

[Kiama]

Hi all,

I have always wondered how the Tarot Trumps came to have the order they have. The earliest Tarot deck we know of had no names or numbers on its cards, so one can only assume the names and numbers were added later (more likely to have happened with numbers than names, since names are fairly easy to remember, whilst numbers would just be awkward). But what is the first deck to give numbers to the Majors? Was this order completely random? Was there any logical/mystical thought behind it?

And more importantly... What would it mean for the so-called Fool's Journey if the order given to the cards is completely random?

Please feel free to explore all possibilities, even those with no documented evidence, and even if it's only for humour value... This historical forum needs a little lightening up recently!

(Bring back the Hysterical Forum!)

Diana, maybe Dilbert will have the answer for this one? After all, he knows so much about the suits of the Tarot deck (Those bananas and rolling pins are cool beans I tell you!), maybe he'll be able to provide us with a little insight into the reason behind the order of the Major Arcana?

Kiama

 

[Umbrae]

Ahhh history…So we have a Juggler, an itinerant comic prestidigitator; then we have a Popess (a pun on Pope Joan? Or a reference to the Black Madonna?). THEN we have the Empress and the Emperor.

Like what gives? Has nobody thought it a little odd? You figure out that set, and the rest may start falling into place.

 

[Elle]

I think it shows beautiful order (my simplistic interpretation)- from the beginning novice to the earthly nature, religion and morals, trials, hope, the power of the universe and back again. Perfect!


Warmest,

Elle

 

[Macavity]

Here's some ideas on the subject courtesy of Tom Tadfor Little:

http://www.tarothermit.com/ordering.htm
http://www.tarothermit.com/ordering2.htm

Macavity

 

[fairyhedgehog]

That's a lot to read, Macavity. Any chance of a précis?

 

[jmd]

There does appear to be a combination of quite 'common' views expressed in the general order, especially when viewed as groups of cards.

For example, the first few cards tend to deal with social positions of individuals (with the Pope as highest), and the final set with celestial concepts (including the spiritual states incorporating the resurrection at the end of the world). The 'middle' group tends to have numerous allegorical considerations.

In addition, there is the important work which I seem to frequently refer to lately on this Forum - the possibility of the Major Arcana of the Marseille being a Hebraic 'abecedarium' (as suggested by Mark Filipas).

It seems to me that thought the first considerations are important, their specific fine-tuned order may very well have come about through such latter considerations or influences.

 

[catlin]

Ok, I am fond of the idea of the Fool's Journey (although I have to admit there are some cards which can make you stumble but...), hm, maybe I should unpack my deck and do some research on that.

 

[fairyhedgehog]

In addition, there is the important work which I seem to frequently refer to lately on this Forum - the possibility of the Major Arcana of the Marseille being a Hebraic 'abecedarium' (as suggested by Mark Filipas).

I don't understand, can you either explain or give the url of the thread where you discuss this?

 

[jmd]

A few years ago, Mark Filipas suggested that possibly (though I think highly likely) the Major Arcana as presented in both the Milanese and the Marseilles patterns may have incorporated, or been, images to depict the letters of the Hebrew alphabet...

as he says, as in 'a is for apple, b for bear', etc.

The book remains, at this stage, a .pdf e.book, and well worth obtaining (Cf his site, from which chapter 1 is freely available).

To be honest, I find very few books I read seem to have important new insights to contribute - however interesting and wonderful to read. Mark's book brings that refreshing quality of taking considerations which others had rejected as misguided, and actually producing something very much worth not only further investigations, but also much reflection. Even if the considerations were to later prove historically inaccurate, the gems it contains will ensure its ongoing importance in the exegesis of Tarot.

In the book, he begins with the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet (Alef), which he (and of course others before him) connect to the Magician, and lists the Hebrew words from early Hebrew lexicons/dictionaries. He continues the work, letter by letter, with each successive Major Arcana card (with the Fool as last, and with the letter Tav).

Many may find it a somewhat 'tedious' book to read cover to cover - but as a reference, it is absolutely wonderful as a tool for further reflection.

 

[Macavity]

That's a lot to read, Macavity. Any chance of a précis?

Probably not. Without the risk changing something? I do empathise, I have to print out almost anything to properly digest it - Even in these day's of the paperless office! As a throw-away observation, picked up somewhere, I think it's interesting to observe that cards with a "religious" theme and especially angel look-alikes occur every fourth card. Running backwards (Marseille Ordering!) and, with a certain degree of creative extrapolation...

Judgement - Star - Temperance - Strength - Justice - Hierophant - High Priestess

A possible link with the Christian virtues?

Macavity