gregory
OK. I didn't qualify, then.moderndayruth said:
But I needed the help - and I got it and my problems have been WAY less since I got it; now when I feel things coming on, I can deflect them. This is all OT, I guess !
Divining life instead of living it.
But I needed the help - and I got it and my problems have been WAY less since I got it; now when I feel things coming on, I can deflect them. This is all OT, I guess !
moderndayruth
gregory said:
Nope, i don't think its OT, all we are speaking about is about life - and that's how i perceive this thread on a deeper level.
I had depression 12y ago - real one, not when you are merely cranky and don't feel like doing something - that's why i don't dare going there, i mean, i don't dare imply that i know what is useful there and what is not; its very difficult, its when the soul is disconnected from the light and merely vegatates ... (mind you this a poetism, not a definition of depression).
I came back to my senses - and back to life too, thanks to my faith, very strict diet, a lot of self-development , a lot of thinking and a lot of reading - also thanks to love and support of my nearest and , last but not the least, thanks to God. (Its your own problem if you don't believe in one, i don't allow being belittled because i do - its generic you mind you. Of course, He is not your daddy with white beard in sandals and yes, sh!t does happen to good people too. )
Anyhow, i found my own meaning - and haven't it been for the depression that i was blessed with - i would be still running around and "living life" as i was thought by tv commercials...
Thanks goodness its not the case. (Just to add that in terms of personal happiness and social achievements i am doing far better now than it was hte case when i was presumably "living life".)
So, no - you carry on "living life" if it makes you happy, i prefer to think, mule over , naval gaze - whatever - plan my actions, make them in sync with everything i find appropriate - so, when i finally go there - i get it immediately, without having ran the unnecessary marathon, hurt my fit, got muscle inflammation and what not.
JSNYC
To gregory, God is nothing. To moderndayruth, Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy is nothing. To everyone, placebos are nothing. To most, divination with a deck of Tarot cards is nothing. But they all "work" and they can all be misused. So let's not blame nothing for causing people not to live life, we should blame something... How about anything else? So many people blame anything else nowadays, it's almost passé! 
Well, old debate, and teasing is no fun if you agree with me.gregory said:
gregory
Yes indeed; that is all part of the same syndrome, though.JSNYC said:To gregory, God is nothing. To moderndayruth, Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy is nothing. To everyone, placebos are nothing. To most, divination with a deck of Tarot cards is nothing. But they all "work" and they can all be misused. So let's not blame nothing for causing people not to live life, we should blame something... How about anything else? So many people blame anything else nowadays, it's almost passé!
I didn't go as far as thatJSNYC said:Well, old debate, and teasing is no fun if you agree with me.
We don't agree. That's a given, whatever thread, no ??? But I do agree with Marina.
moderndayruth
Haha, exactly!!!JSNYC said:To gregory, God is nothing. To moderndayruth, Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy is nothing. To everyone, placebos are nothing. To most, divination with a deck of Tarot cards is nothing. But they all "work" and they can all be misused. So let's not blame nothing for causing people not to live life, we should blame something... How about anything else? So many people blame anything else nowadays, it's almost passé!
I agree with you!gregory
How about this (reading another thread and it struck me...)
Reading rather than DOING seems to be the issue. OK maybe you can "live" by meditation alone (I don't happen to believe it, but I respect those who do) - but doing implies more of an activity/decision/something like that. Would doing be more acceptable here than living, as defining what one misses by reading and divining over and over again ??
Reading rather than DOING seems to be the issue. OK maybe you can "live" by meditation alone (I don't happen to believe it, but I respect those who do) - but doing implies more of an activity/decision/something like that. Would doing be more acceptable here than living, as defining what one misses by reading and divining over and over again ??
moderndayruth
gregory said:
Ughh, your arguments sometimes seem... what's the euphemism for 'obtuse'?
Who in the thread you see as advocating living on meditation alone?
I think all of us that disagree with you - do agree that that's impossible, unless one is seriously ill; if they are seriously ill or disturbed, how does their mania manifests - is it obsessive hand washing or repeatedly reading cards - doesn't make the difference.
What i am saying - is that thinking, creative people need their space and time to think and create; i can absolutely understand that (not referring to you) some people don't do that at all, but this is a forum where many people are of creative professions and/or vocations, so all this argument really seems plain weird.
Do check out this http://bigthink.com/ideas/26506
i think Malcom Gladwell puts it the best:
" This I think is true, not just of writers, but of anyone who is in a creative space, that you have to reverse the normal human tendency, which is to edit. So a lot of... and occasionally this is, I think, a source of a great deal of frustration that exists between people in creative and non-creative universes, which is that creative people I think are trying to... their lives and their brains, their brains are messy. Their imaginations are messy. Why, because they don’t want to throw anything out. Why don’t they want to throw anything out? Because they believe on some level that there is always something of interest or value in whatever they encounter. They know enough about how mysterious and serendipitous and unpredictable the creative process is that they realize that it’s dangerous to kind of make too hasty a judgment about the value of anything that they come across.
People in non-creative universes have exactly the opposite relationship to information—or to experiences is a better way of putting it. They’ll see something and they’ll say "Is it relevant to what I'm doing?" And if it’s not they should push it aside and focus on what they’re kind of task is. If you're at Proctor & Gamble and you’re the head of Ivory soap you’re job is to sell more soap and if you get distracted by some interesting, but ultimately marginal subsidiary issue you won’t sell as much soap. And that is an extreme example, but that's a world that demands focus. If you’re a surgeon and you’re operating you cannot let your imagination wander about some idiosyncrasy of the operation. You have to kind of zero in. So I think that is a kind of... That embracing of messiness and understanding its contribution to the creative process is something that writers and creative types, artists, whatever have got to cultivate, have to learn to be comfortable with. Because it goes against a lot of our kind of instincts and training as kind of educated people."
gregory
I think you may not mean "obtuse" - but if you do, I think I'm offended
No - I never said anyone in this thread lives on meditation alone. Sadhus almost do. Then again - they have a specific purpose in doing so. Most of us here have jobs, families, children, who need attention. We can't afford to spend that much time considering; there is the washing to do, the meetings to attend, the nappies to change - and the families and friends we must not neglect.
Sure - we need time to think. But asking any method of divination before ever doing or deciding anything is abrogating personal responsibility. Then we get to say "well, the bones told me to, so it's not my fault it went wrong." Not good. And doing that isn't "thinking".
I am not at all saying never do it, or (and especially not saying) never take time out to think. THINKING for yourself is not the same as relying on someone/something else to make the decisions for you. Creative thought is not at all the same as asking the cards (or sticks, or sugar packets) over and over. THINKING for yourself is brilliant stuff. Asking the cards isn't just "thinking".
What I was just saying in my previous post was that maybe it's not OK to say LIVING, but rather DOING, because thinking is a form of doing - but may not be seen as living.
No - I never said anyone in this thread lives on meditation alone. Sadhus almost do. Then again - they have a specific purpose in doing so. Most of us here have jobs, families, children, who need attention. We can't afford to spend that much time considering; there is the washing to do, the meetings to attend, the nappies to change - and the families and friends we must not neglect.
Sure - we need time to think. But asking any method of divination before ever doing or deciding anything is abrogating personal responsibility. Then we get to say "well, the bones told me to, so it's not my fault it went wrong." Not good. And doing that isn't "thinking".
I am not at all saying never do it, or (and especially not saying) never take time out to think. THINKING for yourself is not the same as relying on someone/something else to make the decisions for you. Creative thought is not at all the same as asking the cards (or sticks, or sugar packets) over and over. THINKING for yourself is brilliant stuff. Asking the cards isn't just "thinking".
What I was just saying in my previous post was that maybe it's not OK to say LIVING, but rather DOING, because thinking is a form of doing - but may not be seen as living.
moderndayruth
gregory said:
Difficult to understand.
gregory
No - sorry. You meant abstruse then. (ETA well, I hope you did...)
Obtuse means thick, stupid.
Obtuse means thick, stupid.
