Divining life instead of living it.

[moderndayruth]

I disbelieve (not a word but I need it here !) that there is a man in the tree outside my window. THAT is a real disbelief.

I hope that's a fact, not a belief... especially if the hypothetical man in the tree would be someone unknown to you!

ETA:
sorry...

 

[gregory]

I hope that's a fact, not a belief... especially if the hypothetical man in the tree would be someone unknown to you!

ETA:
sorry...

It is a fact - but when I said it, it was a belief - I chose not to look so that I could hold it as such.

OT - your link does not work..... it's a forbidden page

 

[MareSaturni]

Thank you Marina for this thread. It's something I think I need to stop and think about. [...] Some relationships are complicated and for some reason it may not be appropriate or possible to act or to ask. BUT the thread really made me stop and think if I do talk to those I can or choose to talk to the cards instead and I find that is a good question and maybe one it will do me good to think about. And I will. And I thank you for that.

Hey Babs! I know each case is a case, some relationships just have a big communication barrier that makes it nearly impossible for the people involved to talk. So cards can be truly handy. I was not judging the kind of question asked, but the (sometimes unconscious) decision of not trying to do something about it.

I don't think anyone needs to change how they read, just sometimes ask themselves if they (or their querents) are actually using the advice of the cards in a practical way, or if they are just "stuck on getting a particular answer" repeatedly, as Aulruna beautifully put!

It's amazing what got attached to those 3 core things I valued about tarot. I'm not turned off from tarot, I'm turned off from how I was using it and how that was actually dragging me down. Thank goodness... because I love tarot.

I hadn't thought of this aspect - the way you use tarot may end up turning you off from it. But I agree and I think it has happened to me too more than once! I remember many times reading things in the cards, placing a big expectation on the, and expecting them to reach me while I sat on the couch watching TV... when actually, the cards were trying to spur me on to go after what I wanted.

I think my view would end up as - if you cannot do anything without asking the cards - it is high time you stopped using them at all (or any other sort of divination). If you look to them for advice and use that advice to live your OWN life, fair enough.

Yes, I think it's a good way to put it.

 

[moderndayruth]

It is a fact - but when I said it, it was a belief - I chose not to look so that I could hold it as such.

You see, i respect your right to have that ' intermezzo ' between a belief and a fact; everyone has their own way of dealing with those - some remain with belief, some run to check out the facts, some 'enjoy' the very moment.
I would have taken some more time for being in the moment (uncertain and possibly intimidating as it obviously might have been), in between the belief and the reality, i would imagine the possible outcomes, and maybe would have added yet another paragraph for my novel.

 

[MareSaturni]

Can it be agreed that there is difference in viewpoints or all the members here have absolutely to agree on one given option?

Sure. Everyone is entitled to have their opinions and do whatever they want. I don't recall saying otherwise, but since it must be stated, here it is.

What i would like to know (and probably many here) is what exactly prompt you to start the thread?
A personal experience or impressions from the Forum?
Many blood chilling examples have been given - where are those from?
From real life or from Your Readings forum here? If its the latter, its easily ignored.

I am not going to play this game. I prefer not to give name nor face to examples I chose, all I can tell you is that they exist and that you may find them easily enough in any divination forum that has a part of it devoted to practice. To post links would be extremely unconsiderate towards the people that have prompted me to start this post.

I also have taken some examples from real life, but most come from the forums I am a member of, as stated in the first post of this thread.

Most of our members are literate and quite eloquent too, if most of us miss the point here, maybe the point isn't clear or it wasn't verbalized properly?

Perhaps. I'm already planning to enroll in a English course to fix that.

Basically what i am trying to say - is that every opinion is based on one own life experience and that over-simplifications and generalizations are not the way to make an objective appraisal.

A bit of generalization is necessary in discussion or there'll be no discussion at all. That said, a discussion is just theory, I am not torturing and burning people who think or act differently from me. I'm just disagreeing with their overall idea, not with them personally.

Perpetually telling someone how to live their lives, what to believe in, what questions to asks, what not asks, what to do with their own time and Tarot decks - its exactly that, patronizing, because we believe we are better and wiser than them.

I have not done such thing. I asked a question.

As a journalist and more so, as a MA to be, you know its useful (even necessary) to list your source of information.
Where have you noticed these occurrences? Are you absolutely persuaded that these people do not have any kind of interactions with the subjects of their readings?

As a journalist, I have to protect my sources from negative attention, and not expose them unecessarily. This is not an investigation, it's a goddamned post about tarot reading. Please.

Or we'll imply our own (mis)understanding of Faith on them too?

To not have a religion is not a misunderstading of faith.

Most importantly, you took my quote completely out of context. I was talking about the expression "leap of faith", not about faith itself.

What's the oppisite of acting foolishly? Acting wisely, no?
Since when foolishness became an ideal to strive for?

I never said that. You keep putting words in my mouth.

If you want to know what I meant about foolishness, you have but to read the meaning of the unnumbered card of the Major Arcana. It'll tell you everything you need to know about the many different facets of foolishness.

[I edited this last paragraph to avoid confusion, since it was not my intention to call anyone a fool.]

The above hardly sounds as a question, its a judgment and evaluation that contains in itself the answers to all the questions it allegedly asks, excluding by its mere formulation the co-existence of another points of view.

Not everyone seems to agree with you. Many people have answered to my post like the question it is meant to be, and were not offended by the idea exposed.

You are doing the same thing you have accused me of doing.

 

[moderndayruth]

It'll tell you everything you need to know about the other aspects of being a fool.

Marina, read your own posts, before hitting the 'submit' button and accusing people of putting their words into your mouth.

 

[gregory]

Most of our members are literate and quite eloquent too, if most of us miss the point here, maybe the point isn't clear or it wasn't verbalized properly?

Sorry MDR - but much as I you - I think YOU have not heard the question.

It isn't that complex; you are laying LOADS of extras on it. Where do you stand on what I said ?

I think my view would end up as - if you cannot do anything without asking the cards - it is high time you stopped using them at all (or any other sort of divination). If you look to them for advice and use that advice to live your OWN life, fair enough.

Is there simply a point where we have to take responsibility for our lives rather than trying to divine them ahead of living them - so that we then spend so much time divining that we never live ? (I PMd you earlier with a real example which I'm not posting in the open - but - what did you think of it ? OTT for divining, I feel sure.)

 

[moderndayruth]

Sorry MDR - but much as I you - I think YOU have not heard the question.

I love you too. And Marina also, honestly. Which doesn't mean that i agree with the two of you on everything.

It isn't that complex; you are laying LOADS of extras on it. Where do you stand on what I said ?

For goodness sake, Gregory, i said it explicitly, haven't i?

Is there simply a point where we have to take responsibility for our lives rather than trying to divine them ahead of living them - so that we then spend so much time divining that we never live ? (I PMd you earlier with a real example which I'm not posting in the open - but - what did you think of it ? OTT for divining, I feel sure.)

Basically, i believe people should think before acting, also before speaking, if possible.
If you can use some tools - why not?
In the example you have given - i doubt i'd rely that much on the cards, but i don't say other people are wrong for doing so.
I am not in other people's shoes/skins/heads - if they choose to read endlessly, i think its still better than acting foolishly ad nauseum.
See my point?

 

[gregory]

SURE - but I also see that Marina is saying much the same thing, simply in terms of taking personal responsibility.

NO-ONE can afford to take the advice of oracles on everything. It's like navel gazing. It means you miss life. There's an essential difference between using tools and spending your whole life deciding which is the better screwdriver.

 

[moderndayruth]

SURE - but I also see that Marina is saying much the same thing, simply in terms of taking personal responsibility.

NO-ONE can afford to take the advice of oracles on everything. It's like navel gazing. It means you miss life.

Oh, geez, Greg, why being a peacekeeper in the first heated thread that we are having on boards for ages?!

If seriously, i think that we come from different viewpoints, but that it doesn't hurt to exchange opinions and arguments, as long as it is civil and impersonal.