Melanchollic
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Exploring the Cary Sheet
firemaiden
Okay, I've done some googling, and learned... okay, yes, the English "mountebank" and french "saltimbanque" are related historically and etymolgically, but they do *not* mean quite the same thing, and the *bateleur* is not a mountebank.
The English "mountebank", apparently (googled definitions) is 1. A hawker of quack medicines who attracts customers with stories, jokes, or tricks; and 2. A flamboyant charlatan. It comes from the Italian "montambanco" (mounting the bench), and yes, it is related to "saltimbanco" (jumping onto the bench) --
**However**, etymologies aside, the French "saltimbanque" is not just a hawker, - He is an entertainer, a performer, an acrobat, a fire-eater, a sword swallower, a tumbler, -- just exactly as depicted on the children of luna banner. - - it may not be exactly an honest honest profession, but he has more than quackery to offer the crowd - he has his performing skill.
The English "mountebank", apparently (googled definitions) is 1. A hawker of quack medicines who attracts customers with stories, jokes, or tricks; and 2. A flamboyant charlatan. It comes from the Italian "montambanco" (mounting the bench), and yes, it is related to "saltimbanco" (jumping onto the bench) --
**However**, etymologies aside, the French "saltimbanque" is not just a hawker, - He is an entertainer, a performer, an acrobat, a fire-eater, a sword swallower, a tumbler, -- just exactly as depicted on the children of luna banner. - - it may not be exactly an honest honest profession, but he has more than quackery to offer the crowd - he has his performing skill.
mjhurst
Bushy George? I think the monkey looks more like Alberto Gonzalez, who has also been said to resemble the little clone character Keven, on South Park. But then it took me an hour and a half to even *find* the monkey, so I may not be the best judge.
If this little post works, I'll try posting a couple images I sent to Ross this morning. It looks like he didn't post them, and they might be of interest.
Best regards,
Michael (who finally remembered his login)
If this little post works, I'll try posting a couple images I sent to Ross this morning. It looks like he didn't post them, and they might be of interest.
Best regards,
Michael (who finally remembered his login)
le pendu
Michael,
Wonderful to see you here.
Welcome!
Wonderful to see you here.
Welcome!
mjhurst
Thanks.
Your timing is perfect -- I've been looking around, FAQ and searching -- trying to find out how to insert an image. Are there some instructions handy?
Your timing is perfect -- I've been looking around, FAQ and searching -- trying to find out how to insert an image. Are there some instructions handy?
le pendu
michael, if you use the QUOTE button on a post with an image, you'll see the code.
it's basically.. open bracket, IMG, close bracket, THE URL TO THE IMAGE, open bracket, /IMG, close bracket
of course, the image needs to be somewhere to link to, on a site somewhere.
If you want to attach an image instead, there are limits to the size of the file, but it is easy to do.. when you reply to a thread, there's an area called Attach Files, with a button for Manage Attachments.
hope that helps.
best,
robert
it's basically.. open bracket, IMG, close bracket, THE URL TO THE IMAGE, open bracket, /IMG, close bracket
of course, the image needs to be somewhere to link to, on a site somewhere.
If you want to attach an image instead, there are limits to the size of the file, but it is easy to do.. when you reply to a thread, there's an area called Attach Files, with a button for Manage Attachments.
hope that helps.
best,
robert
mjhurst
Cool. I'll go play with a couple images and see what I can do.
Thanks very much.
Thanks very much.
Melanchollic
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le pendu
firemaiden said:
I realize they are somewhat different, but I do think the etymology is worth considering deeply. What is a better english word?
mjhurst
LOL -- my first post upon attempting to return here and I've already broken the rules! My apologies to Melancholic for bringing attention and wrath upon thee -- I can understand your choice of nom-de-net. And thanks for the kind comments. The Notebook has, as you appear to know, been abandoned for three years. (That doesn't mean it won't resurface, one of these days.)
Okay, if I'm not already banned, let's try the image thing. It might be useful to learn, even if I am tolerated here only briefly.
Here is (I hope) the Magician card from the anonymous Parisian deck. Andy Pollett notes, "The first trump features a performer of tricks, watched by other figures, i.e. by his public, whose caricatural faces remark the triviality of man's material activities, confirmed by a dog and a small monkey playing beneath the table." This is one of the several factors which make the *really cool* insight by Rosanne so immediately plausible. (I was convinced about the correctness of the identification even before I recognized the face, hand, hat, plume, etc.)
Here is a monkey associated with a fool in a completely different ranks of man design. There are ranks of mankind shown in many Triumph of Death works, and the Dance of Death is built entirely around a ranks of man. The E-Series model book has a ranks of man, and, of course, Tarot has a ranks of man.
The present example, however, shows a ranks of mankind as subject to *Fortune*. (Milanese, circa 1400, reproduced in J.B. Trapp, Studies of Petrarch and His Influence (2003), pages 128-9, 123.) The ten figures flank Petrarch, with the highest ranking being closest to him and the lesser figures further away. From left to right they (and their identifying attributes) are identified as:
Jester (w/monkey, red-beaked black bird, cage of other birds),
Minstrel (playing a lute),
Merchant (w/open chest of money),
Doctor of Law (w/books),
Pope (w/tiara and croizer),
Petrarch (in Gothic cathedra, w/pen and open book showing the incipit of Remediis: Cum res fortunasque),
King (crowned, w/orb, scepter, ermine trimmed robe),
Soldier (w/crossbow),
Gentleman (w/falcon and hounds),
Woman (blond, w/red dress),
Shepherd (w/ragged clothes, sheep, cudgel).
And here's a somewhat bigger image of the jester.
Okay, if I'm not already banned, let's try the image thing. It might be useful to learn, even if I am tolerated here only briefly.
Here is (I hope) the Magician card from the anonymous Parisian deck. Andy Pollett notes, "The first trump features a performer of tricks, watched by other figures, i.e. by his public, whose caricatural faces remark the triviality of man's material activities, confirmed by a dog and a small monkey playing beneath the table." This is one of the several factors which make the *really cool* insight by Rosanne so immediately plausible. (I was convinced about the correctness of the identification even before I recognized the face, hand, hat, plume, etc.)
Here is a monkey associated with a fool in a completely different ranks of man design. There are ranks of mankind shown in many Triumph of Death works, and the Dance of Death is built entirely around a ranks of man. The E-Series model book has a ranks of man, and, of course, Tarot has a ranks of man.
The present example, however, shows a ranks of mankind as subject to *Fortune*. (Milanese, circa 1400, reproduced in J.B. Trapp, Studies of Petrarch and His Influence (2003), pages 128-9, 123.) The ten figures flank Petrarch, with the highest ranking being closest to him and the lesser figures further away. From left to right they (and their identifying attributes) are identified as:
Jester (w/monkey, red-beaked black bird, cage of other birds),
Minstrel (playing a lute),
Merchant (w/open chest of money),
Doctor of Law (w/books),
Pope (w/tiara and croizer),
Petrarch (in Gothic cathedra, w/pen and open book showing the incipit of Remediis: Cum res fortunasque),
King (crowned, w/orb, scepter, ermine trimmed robe),
Soldier (w/crossbow),
Gentleman (w/falcon and hounds),
Woman (blond, w/red dress),
Shepherd (w/ragged clothes, sheep, cudgel).
And here's a somewhat bigger image of the jester.
