Helvetica said:
That is only the way you see it, Moongold- not everyone and certainly not me. I read Kwaw's post differently: he sees La Lune as an eclipse (on some cards it can be imagined that way) - that is, the moon in the daytime, a veiling of the light of day which can represent, in ancient cosmology (not only European - far wider and older!) an omen, but also a break in habits of normal perception which will lead to a breakthrough. How do Aborigines view eclipses? I know many cultures do not view them very positively, though they can carry a positive message.
Greetings Helvetica ~
I think you misunderstand me. I am referring to the general perception of "Moon" as representing those qualities Kwaw stated and I quoted as being quite characteristic of a general view often referred to in Tarot and very often in astrology. There are many views as well. This is consistent with my earlier comments. I was not referring to the whole of his post.
Don't forget that we are looking at this card alone, not in a sequence with others, and everyone interprets according to the iconology and their own projections. I am not aiming to argue about these things. How can you argue with another's beliefs or perceptions? I am not arguing with Kwaw at all. In fact his way of stating his own views without disparaging mine was much appreciated.
I have based my own interpretation on the iconology and my impressions from the card. Have a look at the Fournier, Sophie, and you will see how different it is from the Dodal. I'd like to make the observation that we all project and that has also occurred in a substantial way in these discussions. Even when I look at the much more benign Dodal I feel that people are putting their own overlay of positivity and wishful thinking on La Lune. However, that is what they see it is their prerogative to do that. My comments were broad, not aimed at individuals.
I am interested in the idea of projections and overlay. Irene Gad's
Tarot and Individuation is one of the best tarot books I have. It's a comprehensive reference to the Marseille. Gad describes different schools of interpretation, including alchemical, qabbalistic, astrological and Jungian. So there are very many different ways of seeing things. That merely shows the Tarot being used as dynamic tool in the present time which is highly appropriate.
Helvetica said:
I was fortunate enough to witness the June 2001 eclipse in Southern Africa. I was driving through the bush in North-Western Zambia. It spread across the plain a midnight blue glow, much like the colour of your Fournier. Dark waves, like those on a painted lake, covered the grass. It wasn't frightening: it was beautiful, eerie, unsettling and surprising: and so still I felt time had stopped to look as well. On those Marseille cards where the eclispe is clearly seen then that too is a message: that eclipses are a beautiful passage of stillness - they will feel unsettling but also exciting and moving.
But there are other ways of seeing XVIII-La Lune, when we do not see an eclipse, but a moonlit night.
Kwaw introduced some new material to me. I had not seen the eclipse idea and have not read this anywhere else. It is a valid perception. I know eclipses were often seen as poor omens and this would only add to the ambience of ill omen surrounding La Lune and which I've already stated that I don't feel comfortable about on a personal level.
I have also seen some lunar eclipses and found them magical because they occurred in the 20th century and I knew what was happening! It might well have been a different story 2000 years ago.
The Australian aborigines had many different tribal groups and mythology varied significantly from group to group. I read something which I can no longer reference which said that some tribes regarded lunar eclipses as being of ill omen but simply part of nature - something to be simply accepted.
Helvetica said:
] Every card in the Marseille (and every other tarot for that matter) has a dark side, and a light. That's why, in my opinion, it is unecessary to read reversals, though it might help. La Lune is no exception. For every "dark night of the soul" there is also - the beauty of imagination released from its social bonds. For every lunacy, there is the gentle lunar madness of poetry and falling in love. For every dip in the pond of the dark subconscious, there is the rising of the unconsicous full of dreams and enchantments.
Yes. I see that. I took the original question as looking at the image from the point of view of its iconology. You are the first to explicitly give a rationale for your positive perceptions. Your rationale is partly "reversals" but more than that, You explicitly suggest seeing also the "shadow" of the image. In this case the shadow is the more positive side.
Bless you, dear Helvetica! You have given me a way of living with this image. I have heard it stated in these forums that reversals in the Marseille were generally not acceptable. And I struggle a bit with seeing what apears to be the diametric opposite to the apparent image in a reading but give me some time to think about it. It's even a little bit like seeing the RWS III Swords as healing heart surgery rather than experiencing heart pain.......perhaps a little harder.
Helvetica said:
That's what I see in this card. You see something else, but you can't just generalise about the card from your own, negative, perception of it.
Hey! I was asked how I would read the card. At least, I took JMD to be asking that rather than asking me to give a collective opinion
. So I have responded to that question as an individual. And also openly and with growing curiosity. I haven't pointed the finger at anyone or suggested that others need to feel as I do
.
I think in fact that the discussion right throughout this thread has been wonderful - educational, thought provoking and respectful. We have provided space for new information, risky ideas, poetry and sentiment without having a barney.
Blessings ~
