MA Pips and Interpretation

kx5

Not being very experienced with the Tarot, let alone the different kinds of decks, when still a beginner, and disliking the RWS intensely, I bought as my starting deck one of those decks in which the Minor Arcana cards had no illustrations on them, just pips. For the first week I was totally confused, even attempting to learn the meanings of the cards by reading the book that came with the deck, but as we all know, such books aren't particularly helpful most of the time. Then, I realised that all I had to do was to imagine the RWS illustration corresponding to the card. So with the Two of Swords (which means literally two swords on my card), I'd have to bring the picture of the blindfolded lady holding the crossed swords. This way, I'd remember the meaning of the card, study it, embellish it and eventually interpret for the sake of a reading.

I thought this method was satisfactory, till some time later. I learnt about more decks, who had their own illustrations for the Minor Arcana. For every deck, although the main meaning of the card was more or less the same, there was a different illustration. The different illustrations on the same card in different decks added different dimensions and different possible interpretations to the very same card. So for example, the figure in the 4 of Cups doesn't look intimidating to you in the RWS. In another deck, if he's dressed in dark blue and this colour is subconsciously associated with bad things in your brain, the card's otherwise mundane interpretation now has a special darker hue, since it rings some nasty bells in your mind.

As much as you can elaborate on the meaning of the same Minor Arcana card in every deck because of these differences in illustration, doing the same with a deck that only has pips in it is difficult. Although most of the time there is a little drawing that might give you a lead, my deck, for instance, only has clouds if this is a card of the suit of air, or fire if it's wands etc. No hint at all.

My question is, is it orthodox to picture the RWS corresponding card in my mind every time I draw a pip Minor Arcana card? What do you usually do to be able to work with a pip Tarot Deck?
 

Grizabella

I don't use decks with Minors that aren't illustrated but if I did, I'd probably do the same thing you do. I think there needs to be a good basis in the Minor card meanings in order to use a deck without illustrated pips and I also think the meanings for the cards might be different.

I think there's a sub-forum here that might help you out with the Marseilles type of decks.
 

dancing_moon

You might want to have a look here and here. These threads deal with Marseilles Tarot, but the principles are applicable to any other decks with non-illustrated pips.

Personally, I find pips unique and liberating to read. Instead of a precise situation shown in the image, they give a flexible and neutral framework to hang on to when doing readings. And meanings for the pips need to be selected and distilled from the available ones until they make sense to you, there's no need to hoard everything that's ever been said about each card.

Of course, one can always simply visualize RWS pictures for each card, but then it kind of defeats the whole purpose of leaving RWS behind. :)
 

kx5

I must admit, I also enjoy the liberty of pips. I was just wondering whether I'm doing it right :D Thanks for the input everyone. My deck isn't exactly a Marseilles, it's the Golden Tarot by Liz Dean, more like a mix of the RWS and the Visconti Sforza.
 

nisaba

My question is, is it orthodox to picture the RWS corresponding card in my mind every time I draw a pip Minor Arcana card?
Is it important to you to do the orthodox thing?

If it's any help, some people do that, others don't.

What do you usually do to be able to work with a pip Tarot Deck?

Each suit is an element, and each element is an area of life. For example, Swords, Air, is the realm of the mind, while Pentacles, Earth, is the physical world.

Each number has a certain basic meaning attached to it. For example, two is about polarity, four is about stability, five is about instability etc.

What kinds of things occur when you pull - say - the Five Pentacles? Physical and instability, what does that make you think of? Being unable to rely on your income or job continuing? Being unable to rely on your body and its ability to maybe walk? Both valid interpretations of the card. Work your way through all four elements and all ten numbers and see what you get. :)
 

kx5

Is it important to you to do the orthodox thing?

If it's any help, some people do that, others don't.

The only reason I'm doubting the validity of my method is for the sake of the accuracy of my readings :)

nisaba said:
Each suit is an element, and each element is an area of life. For example, Swords, Air, is the realm of the mind, while Pentacles, Earth, is the physical world.

Each number has a certain basic meaning attached to it. For example, two is about polarity, four is about stability, five is about instability etc.

What kinds of things occur when you pull - say - the Five Pentacles? Physical and instability, what does that make you think of? Being unable to rely on your income or job continuing? Being unable to rely on your body and its ability to maybe walk? Both valid interpretations of the card. Work your way through all four elements and all ten numbers and see what you get. :)

Hmmm, yes, makes a lot of sense. I have to admit I never thought that using just the basics such as the numbers would be so quintessential to reading. Thank you very much.
 

nisaba

The only reason I'm doubting the validity of my method is for the sake of the accuracy of my readings :)
Orthodoxy and validity ire nowhere near the same. Orthodoxy is what everyone else does. Validity is what actually works, not what everyone else does. :)

I have to admit I never thought that using just the basics such as the numbers would be so quintessential to reading.

With pip cards, unless the deck talks to you, you have little else to go on.
 

kx5

Orthodoxy and validity ire nowhere near the same. Orthodoxy is what everyone else does. Validity is what actually works, not what everyone else does. :)

By 'orthodox' I meant that I didn't want to employ techniques that I shallowly made up, which could possibly compromise the quality of things I say to my sitters. I am unfortunately unfamiliar with Marseilles-style decks.

nisaba said:
With pip cards, unless the deck talks to you, you have little else to go on.

You have the RWS correspondence, as I mentioned :)
 

kx5

Important note: Admittedly, I recently realised that Justice is the Major Arcana no. 8. How does that interfere with the meanings of the 8s? I'm asking because in the RWS which I was using all the way as my reference point, Strength is the 8th card, and as such the corresponding cards of the suits of Swords, Wands, Cups and Pentacles are influenced by this.
 

dancing_moon

As I started my Tarot journey with TdM, Strength as 11, and Justice as 8 are my defaults, so I use these correspondences for most pip decks. However, if a pip deck has Strength as 8, I consider it the main correspondence for this particular deck. Admittedly, though, Justice as 8 makes a bit more sense to me visually, as the number is even and balanced.