jackdaw*
Fairy decks are beneath my noticeShade said:
Vampire decks (oh, excuse me, vampyre) just slightly less so.
The Tarot of Vampyres
Vampire decks (oh, excuse me, vampyre) just slightly less so.Pagan X
It appears to very similar to the Vargo in that the artist, Ian Daniels, has his own symbol set developed for his vampire art and incorporates that into his Tarot designs. http://www.iandanielsart.com/vampires.htm
There appear to be some Minors cards on this site. Looks like Cups will be Cups, Swords will be Swords, Wands will be Wands, and Pentacles will be Skulls.
The Vargo is a Tarot made from existing works of art, this Tarot may also be like that: "Black Witch" becomes the Sun Card.
http://www.iandanielsart.com/witches.htm
To my mind, this makes it more of an art portfolio work than a working Tarot deck, though of course that won't be a problem for experienced readers; just makes it less useful for teaching.
Oh, and Lovecraft fans, search the site--there's a Cthulhu Mythos piece in there!
Plus I do find the image of the pale beauty with her throat having been ripped out by the werewolf a refreshing change (Five of Skulls). It's the most romantic staging of a corpse having had her throat ripped out that you will ever see, but, it there's no ambiguity about what has happened. Would make an interesting Tarot card: "If you're gonna love a wolf, you're gonna get your throat ripped out." (You knew he was a Bad Boy when you met him.)
There appear to be some Minors cards on this site. Looks like Cups will be Cups, Swords will be Swords, Wands will be Wands, and Pentacles will be Skulls.
The Vargo is a Tarot made from existing works of art, this Tarot may also be like that: "Black Witch" becomes the Sun Card.
http://www.iandanielsart.com/witches.htm
To my mind, this makes it more of an art portfolio work than a working Tarot deck, though of course that won't be a problem for experienced readers; just makes it less useful for teaching.
Oh, and Lovecraft fans, search the site--there's a Cthulhu Mythos piece in there!
Plus I do find the image of the pale beauty with her throat having been ripped out by the werewolf a refreshing change (Five of Skulls). It's the most romantic staging of a corpse having had her throat ripped out that you will ever see, but, it there's no ambiguity about what has happened. Would make an interesting Tarot card: "If you're gonna love a wolf, you're gonna get your throat ripped out." (You knew he was a Bad Boy when you met him.)
Vesper
Thanks for the link. I want this deck more than ever now.
I find the images to be more evocative than Vargo's. At least, they are more expressive and better realized. I don't have that deck, but I've looked through it, and it totally lacks the urgent, erotic over-the-top quality of this deck in progress.
That said, I agree that the symbolism doesn't always seem obvious. How does the werewolf and dead girl correspond to the traditional 5 of pentacles? (She has lost a lot of blood, and her future earning power is in doubt, now that she's dead?)
I find the images to be more evocative than Vargo's. At least, they are more expressive and better realized. I don't have that deck, but I've looked through it, and it totally lacks the urgent, erotic over-the-top quality of this deck in progress.
That said, I agree that the symbolism doesn't always seem obvious. How does the werewolf and dead girl correspond to the traditional 5 of pentacles? (She has lost a lot of blood, and her future earning power is in doubt, now that she's dead?)
shadowdancer
well, you cannot knock the artwork - it is stunning.
I would want to see more of the suits and courts, and maybe then be very analytical in my own mind as to whether you could get a lot out of reading with it. If so, great - double bonus of having a good reading deck with stunning imagery. If after the little chat with myself it is a case of "pretty but......" then it will be a no thanks. I went through a few years of buying loads of decks I fell for, only to have them traded away when I realised I had spent money on something that sat in its box in a chest. I do not want to go that route again.
So, I am expecting a lot from it
But as a vampire deck it is the nicest I have seen.
Davina
I would want to see more of the suits and courts, and maybe then be very analytical in my own mind as to whether you could get a lot out of reading with it. If so, great - double bonus of having a good reading deck with stunning imagery. If after the little chat with myself it is a case of "pretty but......" then it will be a no thanks. I went through a few years of buying loads of decks I fell for, only to have them traded away when I realised I had spent money on something that sat in its box in a chest. I do not want to go that route again.
So, I am expecting a lot from it
But as a vampire deck it is the nicest I have seen.
Davina
Pagan X
I agree with the comparison between this deck and the Vargo--this one has more color, detail, and variety. The parallel I see is in the generation of the deck by an artist with an independent body of work that is strongly informing the design choices over Tarot design structure.
For the Five of Skulls, I can see some of the meaning carried forward from the RWS system, though more from Waite's book than his deck. Thoth and Golden Dawn emphasize the financial/work/material aspect of the suit more than does Daniels' design, which appears to be focusing on the reversed (or most negative) suite of meanings from Waite/Mathers/Ettailla: LOVE AS BAD AS IT GETS
You can see the Golden Dawn astrological symbols of Mercury in Taurus on the gravestone. This could also be a depiction of a Ghoul with a freshly obtained corpse.
From Waite's Pictorial Key:
Divinatory Meanings: The card foretells material trouble above all, whether in the form illustrated--that is, destitution--or otherwise. For some cartomancists, it is a card of love and lovers-wife, husband, friend, mistress; also concordance, affinities. These alternatives cannot be harmonized. Reversed: Disorder, chaos, ruin, discord, profligacy.
Mathers (one of Waite's sources):
73. Five of Pentacles.--Lover or Mistress, Love, Sweetness, Affection, Pure and Chaste Love; R. Disgraceful Love, Imprudence, License, Profligacy.
Etteilla (another of Waite's sources, and you can see where the "harmonization" issue comes from)
ETTEILLA: Lover, Person In Love, Chivalrous Man [Galant], Refined Woman [Galante], Husband, Wife, Spouse, Friend.— Paramour, Mistress.—Love, Cherish, Adore.—Harmony, Accord, Suitable Character, Presentable, Decorum.
Reversed: Muddled, Disorganization.—Debauchery, Disorder, Trouble, Confusion, Chaos.—Damage, Ravage, Ruin.—Dissipation, Wasting [Consomption, therefore also Tuberculosis?].—Dissoluteness, Licentiousness.—Discord, Disharmony, Conflict.
Waite as Theriens (quoting himself, oh that guy!)
TRADITION
Lover, mistress, also husband and wife, friend, beloved person. Accord, convenience, well-being, affinity. Reversed they give: Bad conduct, ruin even, confusion, disorder, discord, dissipation, chaos, profligacy. Mr. W. says: "It foretells material trouble above all."
THEORY
The latter saying of Mr. W. is probably correct in any case, but we do not agree that the different renderings "cannot be harmonised." The Fire of the heart on the Ninth house, that of Sagittarius, explains them all without difficulty. It is the emanation of love, which makes practically the lover and the mistress, e.g. husband and wife, when regularised by civil law, and friends, when between persons of the same sex, sympathy and popularity, enthusiasm, hopefulness, love of travelling, roaming about, which in weaker cases easily leads to Bohemian habits, carelessness, disorder and so on. Society will call this in many cases bad conduct, and find much to criticise. That the expansive nature indicated by this card causes 'material troubles above all,' is evident, because it means that more is given out than received, which in matters of this material world does in fact bring troubles. But of a sort that may be easily forgiven, and helped, if not carried too far.
CONCLUSION
Emanation, expansion, love-making and the consequences: lover, mistress, husband, wife, friend; sympathy, popularity, enthusiasm, hopefulness, well-being, affinity. Expenses, material troubles, and in weak cases: disorder, vagrancy, roaming about without aim, waywardness, bad conduct, profligacy, confusion, etc. It is sure to indicate love outside the lines of a legal marriage. Strong individualism, which however is probably ruled by a strong will and a good heart. Brilliancy, but sometimes lack of the sense of responsibility. Travelling or emigration will do much good.
For the Five of Skulls, I can see some of the meaning carried forward from the RWS system, though more from Waite's book than his deck. Thoth and Golden Dawn emphasize the financial/work/material aspect of the suit more than does Daniels' design, which appears to be focusing on the reversed (or most negative) suite of meanings from Waite/Mathers/Ettailla: LOVE AS BAD AS IT GETS
You can see the Golden Dawn astrological symbols of Mercury in Taurus on the gravestone. This could also be a depiction of a Ghoul with a freshly obtained corpse.
From Waite's Pictorial Key:
Divinatory Meanings: The card foretells material trouble above all, whether in the form illustrated--that is, destitution--or otherwise. For some cartomancists, it is a card of love and lovers-wife, husband, friend, mistress; also concordance, affinities. These alternatives cannot be harmonized. Reversed: Disorder, chaos, ruin, discord, profligacy.
Mathers (one of Waite's sources):
73. Five of Pentacles.--Lover or Mistress, Love, Sweetness, Affection, Pure and Chaste Love; R. Disgraceful Love, Imprudence, License, Profligacy.
Etteilla (another of Waite's sources, and you can see where the "harmonization" issue comes from)
ETTEILLA: Lover, Person In Love, Chivalrous Man [Galant], Refined Woman [Galante], Husband, Wife, Spouse, Friend.— Paramour, Mistress.—Love, Cherish, Adore.—Harmony, Accord, Suitable Character, Presentable, Decorum.
Reversed: Muddled, Disorganization.—Debauchery, Disorder, Trouble, Confusion, Chaos.—Damage, Ravage, Ruin.—Dissipation, Wasting [Consomption, therefore also Tuberculosis?].—Dissoluteness, Licentiousness.—Discord, Disharmony, Conflict.
Waite as Theriens (quoting himself, oh that guy!)
TRADITION
Lover, mistress, also husband and wife, friend, beloved person. Accord, convenience, well-being, affinity. Reversed they give: Bad conduct, ruin even, confusion, disorder, discord, dissipation, chaos, profligacy. Mr. W. says: "It foretells material trouble above all."
THEORY
The latter saying of Mr. W. is probably correct in any case, but we do not agree that the different renderings "cannot be harmonised." The Fire of the heart on the Ninth house, that of Sagittarius, explains them all without difficulty. It is the emanation of love, which makes practically the lover and the mistress, e.g. husband and wife, when regularised by civil law, and friends, when between persons of the same sex, sympathy and popularity, enthusiasm, hopefulness, love of travelling, roaming about, which in weaker cases easily leads to Bohemian habits, carelessness, disorder and so on. Society will call this in many cases bad conduct, and find much to criticise. That the expansive nature indicated by this card causes 'material troubles above all,' is evident, because it means that more is given out than received, which in matters of this material world does in fact bring troubles. But of a sort that may be easily forgiven, and helped, if not carried too far.
CONCLUSION
Emanation, expansion, love-making and the consequences: lover, mistress, husband, wife, friend; sympathy, popularity, enthusiasm, hopefulness, well-being, affinity. Expenses, material troubles, and in weak cases: disorder, vagrancy, roaming about without aim, waywardness, bad conduct, profligacy, confusion, etc. It is sure to indicate love outside the lines of a legal marriage. Strong individualism, which however is probably ruled by a strong will and a good heart. Brilliancy, but sometimes lack of the sense of responsibility. Travelling or emigration will do much good.
Vesper
Wow, PaganX. Sign me up for your tarot course, when you get around to teaching it!
What book is the Theriens (Waite) quote from? It looks very helpful.
What book is the Theriens (Waite) quote from? It looks very helpful.
Pagan X
Waite wrote General Book of the Tarot in 1930 under a pen name he had previously used for a book on mere fortune-telling with playing cards, A.E. Thierens.
http://sacredtext.gang.pk/tarot/gbt/index.htm
In the Pictorial Key as I recall Waite was playing a "have you cake and eat it too" game with the reader, positing a body of secret traditional knowledge of Tarot that he could be hint at or talk around; very likely the Golden Dawn Tarot materials.
In the General Book, he supposedly has more meanings derived from astrological considerations. Another very curious feature of this book is that apparently he takes shots at other occultists, Florence Farr and Yeats, in the very card meanings he puts forth! This is both unethical and terribly confusing to the Tarot student. Arthur, I am disappointed in you!
Here's the reference: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/coinherence-l/message/9480
This deserves another topic in another section and inviting poster "rparisious" to Aeclectic.
http://sacredtext.gang.pk/tarot/gbt/index.htm
In the Pictorial Key as I recall Waite was playing a "have you cake and eat it too" game with the reader, positing a body of secret traditional knowledge of Tarot that he could be hint at or talk around; very likely the Golden Dawn Tarot materials.
In the General Book, he supposedly has more meanings derived from astrological considerations. Another very curious feature of this book is that apparently he takes shots at other occultists, Florence Farr and Yeats, in the very card meanings he puts forth! This is both unethical and terribly confusing to the Tarot student. Arthur, I am disappointed in you!
Here's the reference: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/coinherence-l/message/9480
This deserves another topic in another section and inviting poster "rparisious" to Aeclectic.
Aerin
romanticdreamz said:
Hear hear.
These guys, hmmm, not so much. They look rather drippy and wannabe to me. Dru and Spike would have them for breakfast.
Chiriku
When I saw the artist was Ian Daniels, I sat up and took notice.
I have seen his work in various places recently and have been wishing to myself that he could have a full tarot deck of his own.
Apparently, my wish has been instantly granted. Too bad for me it's a theme I'm not all that interested in, but that hasn't necessarily stopped me buying decks in the past.
I have seen his work in various places recently and have been wishing to myself that he could have a full tarot deck of his own.
Apparently, my wish has been instantly granted. Too bad for me it's a theme I'm not all that interested in, but that hasn't necessarily stopped me buying decks in the past.
Pagan X
Chiriku, you might want to look over all 22 Trumps.
While the name of the Deck has got Vampyres in it, not all of the cards depict vampires. It might wind up being your dream deck after all!
While the name of the Deck has got Vampyres in it, not all of the cards depict vampires. It might wind up being your dream deck after all!
