StellarMyst
Although this would potentially annoy the Mods, in the Tarot of the Saints, Why not the Crucifixion scene in place of the Hanged Man of Major Arcana XII...?
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Why no Jesus?
BellyDancer
StellarMyst said:Although this would potentially annoy the Mods, in the Tarot of the Saints, Why not the Crucifixion scene in place of the Hanged Man of Major Arcana XII...?
I agree!!!!!
Since I am Catholic, the Saints deck was one of the first decks I picked up.
I don't like Mary as the Moon! Couldn't stand it.
So I replaced the saints deck cards I didn't like with Rider Waite cards I did.
Then I threw in some Housewife and Bright Ideas and a couple of Marseille.
I love my deck now. It couldn't represent me & who I am any better.
Alta
The topic here is:
Marion
Moderator, Thoth
and while of course a certain amount latitude may occur while discussing around a topic, please try and stay in that area.I was just curious about something...
I understand Waite was a Catholic. Why then, did he not include an image of Jesus in his deck? I've seen a few versions of The World with Jesus in the middle instead of the woman in some other decks.
Anyway...anyone know why Waite wouldn't include an obvious Jesus figure?
Marion
Moderator, Thoth
gregory
frelkins said:I read some article recently that argued the Fool was Jesus. In this account (where is that URL?) the Fool should go at the end of the majors and he represents mankind perfected, which is Jesus, who was the perfect man, right?
Is it this one ?
Or this one ?
I found another but it is a word document, so..........
Parzival
Why No Jesus ?
This is a good question. Remember that Waite was a Christian mystic with deep interest in symbols and rituals that enhance communion with the spiritual. So, while he did not picture Jesus directly, he did picture the Grail or the Christ Power or Logos , That which heals and forgives and transforms : see the Ace of Cups and Temperance as symbols of the Christ Power. And the lemniscate wherever it appears symbolizes the higher Self in unity with the cosmic Christ. And the bull, lion, eagle ,and man at the corners of the Wheel of Fortune and the World are -from one angle of vision - metaphors for the Logos or Christ . Just a few reflections about your question. All this must include individual freedom of interpretation and meditation. The Tarot knows no dogma. It points to energies, truths, and powers.
Splungeman said:I was just curious about something...
I understand Waite was a Catholic. Why then, did he not include an image of Jesus in his deck? I've seen a few versions of The World with Jesus in the middle instead of the woman in some other decks.
Anyway...anyone know why Waite wouldn't include an obvious Jesus figure?
This is a good question. Remember that Waite was a Christian mystic with deep interest in symbols and rituals that enhance communion with the spiritual. So, while he did not picture Jesus directly, he did picture the Grail or the Christ Power or Logos , That which heals and forgives and transforms : see the Ace of Cups and Temperance as symbols of the Christ Power. And the lemniscate wherever it appears symbolizes the higher Self in unity with the cosmic Christ. And the bull, lion, eagle ,and man at the corners of the Wheel of Fortune and the World are -from one angle of vision - metaphors for the Logos or Christ . Just a few reflections about your question. All this must include individual freedom of interpretation and meditation. The Tarot knows no dogma. It points to energies, truths, and powers.
gregory
I see no actual GOD figure in the Waite/Smith cards, either, or a Holy Spirit.
Maybe he thought them too sacred for actual artistic representation. Other artists might disagree - but he may well have felt this.... and left thoughts of all three of the Trinity to be present by implication, as you might say.
Maybe he thought them too sacred for actual artistic representation. Other artists might disagree - but he may well have felt this.... and left thoughts of all three of the Trinity to be present by implication, as you might say.
Sophie
Actually, the Holy Spirit is explicitly represented in the Ace of Cups - the dove that comes down, carrying holy bread, into the Holy Grail. By extension one might see Jesus - or at least Christ consciousness - in that card too. In Christian writings (including the New Testament), the dove represents the Holy Spirit, and became its standard representation long before the Waite-Smith tarot was made.gregory said:I see no actual GOD figure in the Waite/Smith cards, either, or a Holy Spirit.
gregory
Fair cop - but Christ consciousness isn't quite the same thing as an actual represented Christ figure....
Sophie
True. I don't see an actual Jesus in the deck. Only the Holy Spirit, in that one card.gregory said:Fair cop - but Christ consciousness isn't quite the same thing as an actual represented Christ figure....
AJ
Splungeman said:I was just curious about something...
Anyway...anyone know why Waite wouldn't include an obvious Jesus figure?
Do you mean the Jesus image you see everywhere...the guy from the middle east with blue eyes, white skin, and brown hair? What Jesus image were you looking for?
